Why are SO many Illinois folk attracted to Arizona? (Chicago: condo, landscaping)

[collected_eve]

Originally Posted by Havasu

I think the thread should stay open. Who started this thread?

I did...& hey, it's my first one to take off!
Anyhow, reason being, well, read my first post.
I lived in IL for 10 years, nowhere near Chicago, by the way.
And the amount of Illinoisans in Arizona was a obvious observation that I had made.


OH & I can't leave out the fact that I CAN'T WAIT to move BACK to MISSOURI/ILLINOIS!

[Tex?Il?]

Originally Posted by Steve-o

What, like the worst summer weather possible? Or was it the endless tract homes that all look like Taco Bell ripoffs? Maybe it was the lack of a downtown core to hang out in? Horrible sports venues? Maybe it was the fact that Arizona has the worst rated schools in the nation? The snakes? Scorpions? Black widows? Giant centipedes? Mountain lions? Valley Fever? Was it the brown cloud? Horrible public transporation (or lack thereof)? Or was it the....

Now, now, while I understand all of this talk, considering Desertstudent, I still love Arizona. The desert is amazing. I've been to AZ several times, and have yet to see many sites and wildlife. But yes, most of the Phoenix doesn't have much character.

[Steve-o]

Originally Posted by Tex?Il?

Now, now, while I understand all of this talk, considering Desertstudent, I still love Arizona. The desert is amazing. I've been to AZ several times, and have yet to see many sites and wildlife. But yes, most of the Phoenix doesn't have much character.

Id agree with you there. I LOVE the Sonoran Desert, its one of my most cherished areas on this planet. Its just a shame that Phoenix and its ugly satellites are killing the desert by swallowing it up, polluting it, and draining water.

[Attrill]

Originally Posted by Tex?Il?

Now, now, while I understand all of this talk, considering Desertstudent, I still love Arizona. The desert is amazing. I've been to AZ several times, and have yet to see many sites and wildlife. But yes, most of the Phoenix doesn't have much character.

Yeah - Arizona is amazing. I try to make it to the Chiricachua Mountains at least once a year to go hiking. After a few trips to Phoenix I don't really find much character to it either. Tucson is more interesting.

[Bill-]

Originally Posted by Steve-o

Id agree with you there. I LOVE the Sonoran Desert, its one of my most cherished areas on this planet. Its just a shame that Phoenix and its ugly satellites are killing the desert by swallowing it up, polluting it, and draining water.

Fortunately vast tracts of the Sonoran desert are protected as public land in County Parks, BLM land, National Parks and National Forests. You should also realize that the vast majority of land developed in the Phoenix area was irrigated farmland, not virgin desert and was stripped of it's desert vegetation long before housing and commerical developers arrived.

In comparison the state of Illinois has one of the lowest percentages of public land in the country and has destroyed far more of it's natural landscapes and ecosystems than Arizona. Only tiny remnants of the vast prairies that once covered most of Illinois remain. That's a shame.

[Maintainschaos]

[quote=Chicago60614;2289419]

Originally Posted by desert student

True, it's on set to pass us in roughly 30 years based on 2000 numbers.




Based on the latest census, Phoenix metro will get us in between 50 and 60 years.



Actually more of that has to do with the fact Chicago has had the same city limits since the 50's, whereas Phoenix has kept annexing land. Chicago can't keep grabbing dozens of square miles in empty land into its borders. I think this makes it's 112,000 population growth during the 90's into an entirely built out area somewhat impressive.




I didn't drive back to Lake Barrington (not sure where that is, there are 235 suburbs), so I can't comment.

Chicago lost population because of birth rates, household density, and white flight. In 2007, the actual gain/loss of a city really doens't have a whole lot to do with the health of a city unless it's losing something like 8-10% of the population in one decade.

Regardless....the census estimates compared to the actual 2000 population found the city of Chicago had roughly 250,000 more people than the government was expecting. Since then, the city has built around 12,000 new residential units in the city per year......and hasn't expanded the limits since the 50's.

Plus it's kind of moot if Houston or Phoenix were to "overtake" the population of the city of Chicago, since the metro area is still so much bigger: ~10 million for Chicago compared to ~5.5 million for Houston and ~4 million for Phoenix. It'll be a long time before they get larger than the Chicago metro area.

I just always thought that Chicago felt so much more diverse and cosmopolitan than Phoenix. Plus it's just WAY too hot in AZ for me (but not for my sister!). AZ is beautiful, but so is IL, just in a different way.

[Steve-o]

Originally Posted by Attrill

Yeah - Arizona is amazing. I try to make it to the Chiricachua Mountains at least once a year to go hiking. After a few trips to Phoenix I don't really find much character to it either. Tucson is more interesting.

Thats one of my fave ranges too. I love those and the Superstitions, Ive found many cool critters up there. You should try the Dragoon Mountains sometime. Theyre really far south (Tombstone area), but have cool rock formations. I also recommend the McDowell's too. As for Tucson though, ick. Not a fan at all. Its environs are stunning, but the city itself (except Oro Valley area) is, well, an acquired taste perhaps?

[Steve-o]

Originally Posted by Bill-

Fortunately vast tracts of the Sonoran desert are protected as public land in County Parks, BLM land, National Parks and National Forests. You should also realize that the vast majority of land developed in the Phoenix area was irrigated farmland, not virgin desert and was stripped of it's desert vegetation long before housing and commerical developers arrived.

In comparison the state of Illinois has one of the lowest percentages of public land in the country and has destroyed far more of it's natural landscapes and ecosystems than Arizona. Only tiny remnants of the vast prairies that once covered most of Illinois remain. That's a shame.

You bring up some good points, Bill. Yes, IL has developed massively and destroyed most prairies. But like AZ, there are many areas that are protected. I even saw that down on I-55 near St. Louis area, that theyre growing prairie again in between the highways (on the dividers). Ive even seen many efforts here in St. Charles, even along the main roads (ie Rt. 64) where they are not allowing any kind of development in areas in an attempt to let the prairies flourish. They even have areas right along North Avenue with signs stating "native prairie plants--DO NOT MOW!". I like seeing the effort IL is putting into prairie rehab. I do know about how little public land there is in IL, its pathetic. But most land is irrigated farmland, etc. IOW, its being put to good use. The Sonoran Desert is getting gobbled up for homes, Menards, etc, etc. Really, I dread going there every year because Im afraid Ill see something else I once loved gobbled up by crappy development.

As for AZ, I was aiming my comments more towards places like Scottsdale, Paradise Valley, Carefree, Cave Creek. One such instance was Fountain Hills. Many years ago I remember going there and my BIL and I would ride dirtbikes. 5 years later we went back to that spot and it was nothing but more tract homes. Same goes for the area east of Scottsdale along Pinnacle Peak Rd. Used to be untouched virgin Sonoran Desert, now its once again nothing but tract homes. I could have SCREAMED when I saw that. Thats where my brother and I used to go herping/collecting. Now its nothing but marked lots and gravel streets, being prepared for the onslaught of devastation thats set to occur. I saw TONS of Saguaros tagged for relocation, etc.

[Steve-o]

[quote=Maintainschaos;2294775]

Originally Posted by Chicago60614

Plus it's kind of moot if Houston or Phoenix were to "overtake" the population of the city of Chicago, since the metro area is still so much bigger: ~10 million for Chicago compared to ~5.5 million for Houston and ~4 million for Phoenix. It'll be a long time before they get larger than the Chicago metro area.

I just always thought that Chicago felt so much more diverse and cosmopolitan than Phoenix. Plus it's just WAY too hot in AZ for me (but not for my sister!). AZ is beautiful, but so is IL, just in a different way.

Yeah, to pass our metro would be quite hard. As someone above stated, Chicago is landlocked, unlike some of these sunbelt cities who can annex and gobble up lands. And yes, I wholly agree that Chicago is eons better than Phoenix, always has been, always will be, IMO.

[Bill-]

Originally Posted by Steve-o

As for AZ, I was aiming my comments more towards places like Scottsdale, Paradise Valley, Carefree, Cave Creek. One such instance was Fountain Hills. Many years ago I remember going there and my BIL and I would ride dirtbikes. 5 years later we went back to that spot and it was nothing but more tract homes. Same goes for the area east of Scottsdale along Pinnacle Peak Rd. Used to be untouched virgin Sonoran Desert, now its once again nothing but tract homes. I could have SCREAMED when I saw that. Thats where my brother and I used to go herping/collecting. Now its nothing but marked lots and gravel streets, being prepared for the onslaught of devastation thats set to occur. I saw TONS of Saguaros tagged for relocation, etc.

The same thing happens in most areas. I grew up in the Elgin Area in the 70's and 80's and can remember Randall Road as a 2 lane farm road with a lot of four way stop signs. We had areas where we rode dirtbikes, swam in the creeks, hunted pheasants, picked blackberries etc. that are now a sea of vinyl siding, asphalt shingles and plastic white picket fences. It doesn't really upset me though as I am sure the house I grew up in sat on what once was someone else's playground.