Petitioning for the Repeal of the Smoking Ban (Chicago: work, health)

[LINCOLNSHIRE]

Originally Posted by Drover

Great, so what do you do on days like this when it's -16 degrees celsius out? (And understand that these temps are not uncommon this time of year around here...)

Carry on regardless......But wear a hat!

[boris63]

Originally Posted by LINCOLNSHIRE

Respect the others and go outside.......I`m all for that and I`m a smoker.

Good attitude. I admire the fact that you have the common courtesy to step outside, if your smoke is bothering someone. It shows good character and a respect for others.

What if, on the other hand, the bar was full of smokers and it didn't appear to be bothering anyone? Under the current law you'd be forced to step outside even if your smoke would not be bothering anyone.

Voluntary courtesy is a good quality, but it's a personal choice. I'm all for voluntarily respecting others(i.e. respecting property rights), that's just common courtesy. This debate, however is about the difference between "forcing" people to obey, or giving them a "choice"

[LINCOLNSHIRE]

Originally Posted by boris63

Good attitude. I admire the fact that you have the common courtesy to step outside, if your smoke is bothering someone. It shows good character and a respect for others.

What if, on the other hand, the bar was full of smokers and it didn't appear to be bothering anyone? Under the current law you'd be forced to step outside even if your smoke would not be bothering anyone.

Voluntary courtesy is a good quality, but it's a personal choice. I'm all for voluntarily respecting others(i.e. respecting property rights), that's just common courtesy. This debate, however is about the difference between "forcing" people to obey, or giving them a "choice"

The law in England gives me no option at all. No smoking in enclosed spaces is now set in stone, along with the ridiculous bans imposed on stations. A bar full of people unbothered by smoking I haven`t seen since last June. Before the ban we were told many people put off going to bars and eateries because of smokers would suddenly, like a revelation, appear in those places. I have yet to see it. As I think the figures for the number of businesses going under will testify.
My opinion in short,,,,,A little common sense on both sides would have gone a long way...

Edit; I forgot to mention the vote on the ban in Parliament was by no means a walkover. Also by mistake , i`m sure, there is still a smoking bar for MPs at Westminster...

[boris63]

The point is that in a free market, which is what we should have in a free society, there will be both smoking and non-smoking establishments. The ratio of smoking to non-smoking establishments would be determined by the market. That way both smokers and non-smokers are given a choice where to eat or drink.

The possible exception(I mentioned this in an earlier post) might be in a small town or rural area where there's not enough businesses to cater to both preferences.

For example a small town with only one tavern would not be able to cater to both smokers and non-smokers, in which case he has the choice to do what's in his best business interests. Someone that prefered a different environment might have to drive a few miles to find a bar to cater to his preference, but a small price to pay to live in a free society

[SloopyJ]

To Boris and Avengerfire, I say please lighten up on the Fascist/Nazi comments. They make you sound ridiculous. Reasonable people can disagree on this topic without invoking Hitler and Mussolini.

Boris, even you would (presumably) agree that there must be *some* limit to what is allowed on private property. Maybe smoking doesn't qualify, but the government has to draw the line *somewhere*, right? Particularly when that private property declares itself open for public business, there have to be *some* rules about what is permissible there, don't there? So if we agree on that, then it comes down to where government should draw the line. Some would say draw it on one side of allowing smoking. Others would say draw it on the other side. Fine. People can disagree on that. But let's not call people who disagree with you Fascists, OK?

[illini84]

Originally Posted by boris63

What if, on the other hand, the bar was full of smokers and it didn't appear to be bothering anyone?

That's the thing. Doesn't appear to be bothering anyone. I guarantee there's ALWAYS at least one person it's bothering, even if he or she doesn't speak up. If non-smokers aren't waving their hands and choking, smokers just assume it doesn't bother anybody and carry on puffing away.

[NYrules]

Originally Posted by boris63

When will you get it?!! Comparing "public" roads to "private" property is comparing apples to oranges!

Roads really are public property! They are financed by the taxpayers. Owned by the the people represented by the government. Of course government can make rules for the road. The government owns the road!!!

People have no choice but to drive on the public road, therefore the public(represented by the government) makes the rules! Why is this so hard for you to understand!!

If an individual built his own road on his own private property, he'd have the right to get drunk and drive around on it all day long. No one else has to drive on that road with him if they don't want to!!!

Why is it so hard for you to understand the difference between public and private property?!!!

Why is it so hard for you to understand that when you open up your building to the public you have standards that have to be met set forth by the government. Heck, I'll go open up my own hotel and never repair the rickity old elevator that is ready to collapse at any moment and kill whomever is in it. It's my property right? If I want a rickity old elevator, then that is my decision. Who cares if it hurts someone? Or I'll open up a beauty salon and say NO BLACKS ALLOWED! It's my business so why not? I'll open up an auto repair shop and tell my workers they must work 10 hour shifts with no breaks. It's my shop so why not? Or I'll open up a hot dog stand and serve only real dogs that I found in the alleys around Chicago which may or may not be rampid with rabies. Why not? Afterall it's my hot dog stand.

The fact is that you are hooked on smoking and can't fathom having to now respect the rights of the 77% of the population now that does not smoke and not be able to subject them to your smoke. And before you come back and say it is your right to smoke. Show me where. Where does it say you have a right to kill other people slowly with your second hand smoke? NOWHERE NOW DOES IT! LOL thought so. AWWWW pobrecito! LOL!

[illini84]

Originally Posted by NYrules

Why is it so hard for you to understand that when you open up your building to the public you have standards that have to be met set forth by the government. Heck, I'll go open up my own hotel and never repair the rickity old elevator that is ready to collapse at any moment and kill whomever is in it. It's my property right? If I want a rickity old elevator, then that is my decision. Who cares if it hurts someone? Or I'll open up a beauty salon and say NO BLACKS ALLOWED! It's my business so why not? I'll open up an auto repair shop and tell my workers they must work 10 hour shifts with no breaks. It's my shop so why not? Or I'll open up a hot dog stand and serve only real dogs that I found in the alleys around Chicago which may or may not be rampid with rabies. Why not? Afterall it's my hot dog stand.

The fact is that you are hooked on smoking and can't fathom having to now respect the rights of the 77% of the population now that does not smoke and not be able to subject them to your smoke. And before you come back and say it is your right to smoke. Show me where. Where does it say you have a right to kill other people slowly with your second hand smoke? NOWHERE NOW DOES IT! LOL thought so. AWWWW pobrecito! LOL!

Thank God. I've been trying to make these exact points for a week now...couldn't have been summed up better!

[soccermom1]

I am in favor of this whole thing. It levels the playing field for the businesses in towns that went smoke free prior to the whole state doing so and I have to admit that it makes it much more pleasurable now to be able to go out for night of bowling or whatever and not inhale a pack of some else's cigarettes. Smoking killed my mother off with lung cancer and my father as well so I am very well aware of the dangers of smoking and have informed my boys on this as well. Now that is it less convient for people to light up, maybe it will also deter our kids from ever doing. One can only hope.

[aragx6]

...God bowling will never be the same...