Petitioning for the Repeal of the Smoking Ban (Chicago, Springfield: work, businesses)

[boris63]

Originally Posted by SloopyJ

Boris, even you would (presumably) agree that there must be *some* limit to what is allowed on private property.

I would draw the line in saying that the public should be fully informed on what the policy of that private business is.

I have no problem with making smoking establishments being required to post a sign stating: "This is a smoking establishment. Smoking is hazardous to your health. Enter at your own risk" any more than(to use a previous posters example) posting: "We eat rats in here and puke on the floor. Enter at your own risk" though I would bet that the rat eating establishment wouldn't be around very long!! Most people(if any) wouldn't choose to patronize it.

History shows that free markets work. When people have choices the market eventually gives them what they want.

As far as comparing a elevator falling down to entering a smoke filled bar, we have liability laws to protect people from that sort of thing. I suppose if the business owner posted a sign saying: "This is a rickety old elevator that might fall down, use at your own risk" he would be waiving his liability.

Comparing a ricketty elevator to a smoke filled room is not a good comparison anyway. A person walking into a room filled with smokes knows that there's second hand smoke in that room. a person might not be able to see that an elevator is in bad shape just by looking at it.

As far as the references to Hitler & Mussolini, that wasn't me. I did compare the quote by NYrules basically saying(I'm paraphrasing) that in "having a business you forfeit all your rights to the government" to the political philosiphy of fascism. That's true. That idea is fascism. Look it up.

The Libertarian political philosiphy that I subscribe to, and that, by the way, this coutry was founded upon, respects property rights. Two opposite ends of the political spectrum.

[Inthesprawlpath]

There is an old song by the Who off of thier Odds and Sods Album from the sixties called "Little Billy", I think.Find it in your I-Tunes.It would be good background music for anybody still left reading this thread.

[NYrules]

Originally Posted by boris63

I would draw the line in saying that the public should be fully informed on what the policy of that private business is.

I have no problem with making smoking establishments being required to post a sign stating: "This is a smoking establishment. Smoking is hazardous to your health. Enter at your own risk" any more than(to use a previous posters example) posting: "We eat rats in here and puke on the floor. Enter at your own risk" though I would bet that the rat eating establishment wouldn't be around very long!! Most people(if any) wouldn't choose to patronize it.

History shows that free markets work. When people have choices the market eventually gives them what they want.

As far as comparing a elevator falling down to entering a smoke filled bar, we have liability laws to protect people from that sort of thing. I suppose if the business owner posted a sign saying: "This is a rickety old elevator that might fall down, use at your own risk" he would be waiving his liability.

Comparing a ricketty elevator to a smoke filled room is not a good comparison anyway. A person walking into a room filled with smokes knows that there's second hand smoke in that room. a person might not be able to see that an elevator is in bad shape just by looking at it.

As far as the references to Hitler & Mussolini, that wasn't me. I did compare the quote by NYrules basically saying(I'm paraphrasing) that in "having a business you forfeit all your rights to the government" to the political philosiphy of fascism. That's true. That idea is fascism. Look it up.

The Libertarian political philosiphy that I subscribe to, and that, by the way, this coutry was founded upon, respects property rights. Two opposite ends of the political spectrum.

It may be fascism at it's best, but it is for the good of the majority. In your liberatarian idealism, your next door neighbor in Chicago only 3 feet away from your bedroom window should be able to throw dead animals out of his windows into his yard and just leave their carcasses there to rot away to nothing. It's his property correct? I mean who is the city to step in and say, "uhhh no, you are not going to pile dead animals up in your yard" ? That would be fascist. NOT TO MENTION A HEALTH HAZARD LIKE SOMETHING ELSE... HMMM what was it again? LOL

[boris63]

Originally Posted by Inthesprawlpath

There is an old song by the Who off of thier Meaty Beaty Big and Bouncy Album from the sixties called "Little Billy", I think.Find it in your I-Tunes.It would be good background music for anybody still left reading this thread.

What's the song?

[Inthesprawlpath]

Originally Posted by boris63

What's the song?

Sorry wrong album,It's "Little Billy" on The Whos' "Odds and Sods" album.

[boris63]

Originally Posted by NYrules

It may be fascism at it's best, but it is for the good of the majority. In your liberatarian idealism, your next door neighbor in Chicago only 3 feet away from your bedroom window should be able to throw dead animals out of his windows into his yard and just leave their carcasses there to rot away to nothing. It's his property correct? I mean who is the city to step in and say, "uhhh no, you are not going to pile dead animals up in your yard" ? That would be fascist. NOT TO MENTION A HEALTH HAZARD LIKE SOMETHING ELSE... HMMM what was it again? LOL

When the stench of his dead animals crosses over my property line, he is now violating my property rights!!! LOL

[NYrules]

Originally Posted by boris63

When the stench of his dead animals crosses over my property line, he is now violating my property rights!!! LOL

Lets say its 4 outside like it is today.. They would be frozen. No stench. I could see you trying to be romantic with a loved one, only to look out your window and see a cat carcass go flying out the kitchen window next door into the backyard. LOL!!! Sounds more like something you might see in Kentucky hehehehehe.

[boris63]

Originally Posted by NYrules

It may be fascism at it's best, but it is for the good of the majority.

Fascism for the good of the majority?! You can't really believe that!

[boris63]

Originally Posted by NYrules

Lets say its 4 outside like it is today.. They would be frozen. No stench. I could see you trying to be romantic with a loved one, only to look out your window and see a cat carcass go flying out the kitchen window next door into the backyard. LOL!!! Sounds more like something you might see in Kentucky hehehehehe.

I'll concede! He should be required to put up a fence so I don't have to look at that crap!! LOL

But seriously, I'll admit there is a lot of grey area in determining when one persons rights border on violating another persons rights. If I live next door to someone doing something disgusting that affects me directly and I have no choice in the matter. In some indirect way he is violating my rights.

However this ban to me is not one of those grey areas. there are plenty of choices for smokers and non-smokers alike without having to sell their homes, pack up, and move to another state.

I do get your point though. There will never be a perfect utopian society. there will always be a grey area where we'll all have to compromise. I would just rather lean towards the side of liberty, rather than the side of fascism. I truely believe we'd all be better off, if more people tryed to do the same.

[Cindy15161]

I am not one for smoking. I think it a horrible and disgusting habbit. I have known too many people who died from it. On another point it didn't bother me in restaurants when they had the seperate section for smokers. I don't see why they still can't do that? Either they sit in and enclosed area and eat there or just having a standing smoking room so you can have a quick drag?