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Agreed -- it's kind of silly to hear people say "the amenities of city A are better than city B", since everybody's list of Important Amenities (tm) is different.
And we have others that are willing to pay an ultra premium for said Important Amenities, and will fight to the death to justify them.
You can find suburbia anywhere in the U.S. Places like Dallas, Atlanta, Phoenix, Houston, Jacksonville, Nashville, Raleigh, Charlotte, etc. are dime-a-dozen. There aren't many places like Chicago...maybe NYC, Boston, Philadelphia, DC, and SF? If you don't understand the differences between "City A and City B" then you are probably not on the right forum, lol.
Also noticed your posting stating you and your wife are suburbanites. This is interesting because your profile suggests you live in Lakeshore East (60601)
You can find suburbia anywhere in the U.S. Places like Dallas, Atlanta, Phoenix, Houston, Jacksonville, Nashville, Raleigh, Charlotte, etc. are dime-a-dozen. There aren't many places like Chicago...maybe NYC, Boston, Philadelphia, DC, and SF? If you don't understand the differences between "City A and City B" then you are probably not on the right forum, lol.
Also noticed your posting stating you and your wife are suburbanites. This is interesting because your profile suggests you live in Lakeshore East (60601)
Yep, that zip is there to thwart potential doxxers. It worked on you!
I also think you missed the point if you think I don't understand there ARE differences between cities. That's an absurd accusation, don't you think?
The question is how they're valued. You don't write a check to The Good Weather Company in San Francisco, but you're absolutely paying for it if you live there. The question is: is it worth the cost?
Yep, that zip is there to thwart potential doxxers. It worked on you!
I also think you missed the point if you think I don't understand there ARE differences between cities. That's an absurd accusation, don't you think?
The question is how they're valued. You don't write a check to The Good Weather Company in San Francisco, but you're absolutely paying for it if you live there. The question is: is it worth the cost?
Minor detail but I wouldn't consider the weather in San Francisco all that great. Replace "Francisco" with "Diego" and now we're talking. People are paying a premium in San Fran largely because of employment opportunities (tech specifically).
Yep, that zip is there to thwart potential doxxers. It worked on you!
I also think you missed the point if you think I don't understand there ARE differences between cities. That's an absurd accusation, don't you think?
The question is how they're valued. You don't write a check to The Good Weather Company in San Francisco, but you're absolutely paying for it if you live there. The question is: is it worth the cost?
I think there's a pretty straighforward answer to all of this. Chicago is a massive urban city in the US that can offer a kind of lifestyle and urban environment that few other cities in the US can offer, and of the cities that can offer those things, Chicago is among the least expensive. How much one personally values those things and whether or not they can make a good living to enjoy those things through many of the diverse industries that are located in Chicago is a personal matter. For some, the additional expenses will be well offset by the jobs they can get in Chicago which for some occupations and industries has a much higher ceiling than many other places--and again, those places that can match or better the positions and salaries in Chicago are few and generally as expensive or even more so when it comes to cost of living. I think it doesn't make sense to characterize this as burning away money though since you can have situations where it is economically and professionally, even outside of comparisons about amenities, more sensible to be in Chicago.
Consider some of the following:
- Chicago and its metropolitan area has one of the largest concentrations of Fortune 500 companies in the US; it's about tied with the Bay Area and Houston (all three of these are a notable step down from NYC of course).
- Chicago is home to several preeminent research institutions with few other areas in the US on par (Bay Area, DC, NYC, LA, Boston)
- Chicago is home to several of the most acclaimed performing arts institutions in the US where one can actually make a decent living with a full performance schedule which is extremely difficult in most other places
- Chicago is home to several of the most acclaimed architectural firms in the world
- Chicago is home to the largest futures/derivatives market and home to the CME group which is, you know, massive
So, yea, there are several professions and industries that are generally going to offer a lot for a professional working within this or that industry or professional track (and that was by no means an exhaustive list) even if Chicago was also a sprawled out suburbia roughly interchangeable in form and structure with hundreds of other places in the US. However, it's a bonus for some that Chicago isn't that, so there's that draw, too. It's not going to make sense for everyone, but it's also sort of nonsensical to categorize living in Chicago as simply burning money away needlessly when it can and does make the most financial and professional sense for some people.
Of course, there's the greater point to be made that even with all these great things about Chicago economically, the city and state seemed to have bungled quite a bit and hasn't capitalized on many of the advantages. For instance, Chicago has several major research universities within or close to city limits that attract and develop a great deal of talent--much of which subsequently leaves. Chicago is an incredible foci of the rail (freight and passenger) rail network of the US like none other, yet has been slow about mustering about the funds to improve the congestion from all these and to greatly develop industries which would greatly benefit from this. Chicago got its start as a major portage point between the Mississippi River and Great Lakes shipping system and through incredible engineering has connected the two waterways sufficient for trade yet the Port of Chicago is comically poorly managed when it combined with all the rail lines can serve as an incredible entrepot centered in a continent with a wealth of resources.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 06-21-2016 at 01:54 PM..
Yep, that zip is there to thwart potential doxxers. It worked on you!
Right...well better delete your posts that out you! Don't want any potential doxxers knowing you're really hiding out in the suburbs pretending to be from the most affluent part of the city...
Quote:
Originally Posted by numberfive
I also think you missed the point if you think I don't understand there ARE differences between cities. That's an absurd accusation, don't you think?
The question is how they're valued. You don't write a check to The Good Weather Company in San Francisco, but you're absolutely paying for it if you live there. The question is: is it worth the cost?
There are many places with better weather than San Francisco that are nowhere near as expensive. San Francisco is expensive because the employment opportunities pay more. If/when the tech bubble bursts, we'll see a market correction in San Francisco.
Chicago also has a very high # of high-paying jobs, which is why housing costs are higher here than in neighboring states/less affluent parts of the country. Not everyone is raking in the big dollars obviously, but since so many are the competition for the "best" locations is more intensive. Guess what that does to prices?
I will also add that there are MANY communities throughout Chicagoland that have very affordable housing costs. They're not always the "best" locations, but they're not uninhabitable ghettos. I would actually say most are very pleasant places to live.
Last edited by IrishIllini; 06-21-2016 at 01:38 PM..
I disagree. My husband and I both make more in Florida than we made in Chicago, and neither of us are in IT.
I'm sure there are also people in Alabama making more than they used to in Chicago. So what? It doesn't mean that the majority of people are in the same boat because of one specific case. The numbers still say that most fields pay better in a metro like Chicago than a small town in TN or smaller metro such as Nashville. If they didn't, it would be more expensive to live in places like Nashville or Florida relative to Chicago.
I think there's a pretty straighforward answer to all of this. Chicago is a massive urban city in the US that can offer a kind of lifestyle and urban environment that few other cities in the US can offer, and of the cities that can offer those things, Chicago is among the least expensive. How much one personally values those things and whether or not they can make a good living to enjoy those things through many of the diverse industries that are located in Chicago is a personal matter. For some, the additional expenses will be well offset by the jobs they can get in Chicago which for many occupations and industries has a much higher ceiling than many other places--and again, those places that can match or better the positions and salaries in Chicago are few and generally as expensive or even more so when it comes to cost of living. I think it doesn't make sense to characterize this as burning away money though since you can have situations where it is economically and professionally, even outside of comparisons about amenities, more sensible to be in Chicago.
What kind of lifestyle can you get in Naperville, IL that you can't get in Alpharetta, GA or Richardson, TX?
Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler
Consider some of the following:
- Chicago and its metropolitan area has one of the largest concentrations of Fortune 500 companies in the US; it's about tied with the Bay Area and Houston (all three of these are a notable step down from NYC of course).
- Chicago is home to several preeminent research institutions with few other areas in the US on par (Bay Area, DC, NYC, LA, Boston)
- Chicago is home to several of the most acclaimed performing arts institutions in the US where one can actually make a decent living with a full performance schedule which is extremely difficult in most other places
- Chicago is home to several of the most acclaimed architectural firms in the world
- Chicago is home to the largest futures/derivatives market and home to the CME group which is, you know, massive
- The Onion; I like it and that's that.
You can't tie any of these things to an objective value.
Furthermore, sometimes it works in the opposite direction. In my own experience, I made less working for 6 years for a Fortune 100 company in the Chicago area than I did in a small- or medium-sized company. I've far exceeded the earnings of those that remained, so my experience has shown that's a detriment more than an asset.
I'm sure there are also people in Alabama making more than they used to in Chicago. So what? It doesn't mean that the majority of people are in the same boat because of one specific case. The numbers still say that most fields pay better in a metro like Chicago than a small town in TN or smaller metro such as Nashville. If they didn't, it would be more expensive to live in places like Nashville or Florida relative to Chicago.
I still disagree with you. I think there are a lot of very good paying jobs here in Florida for people with skills. I think Florida suffers from a perception issue, and lots of unskilled workers come here and of course, cannot find good paying jobs. But companies are crying down here for skilled employees. They are hard to find. I think many people don't even bother to search Florida for job opportunities because they assume there are none.
My husband's company is crazy about him and pays him more than he made back home. They are asking him to call his "friends back home" and have them come down too - they need more people like my husband. Florida is now the 2nd or 3rd most populous state in the country (I can't remember which), so just in terms of the medical field alone (which neither my husband nor I are in either), there is tremendous need. Nurses are being given signing bonuses to come here. Research companies are moving down here, and other businesses are relocating here because it is business friendly and people are catching on.
Is Florida for everyone? Well of course not, no place is for everyone. But to dismiss out of hand that "there are very few good paying jobs in Florida" is silly.
When you have a state where a huge chunk of people are in low paying service industry jobs (due to all the tourism), it skews the numbers.
What kind of lifestyle can you get in Naperville, IL that you can't get in Alpharetta, GA or Richardson, TX?
You can't tie any of these things to an objective value.
Furthermore, sometimes it works in the opposite direction. In my own experience, I made less working for 6 years for a Fortune 100 company in the Chicago area than I did in a small- or medium-sized company. I've far exceeded the earnings of those that remained, so my experience has shown that's a detriment more than an asset.
I don't think I was referencing Naperville. I must've ended up in the wrong thread--I was referring to urban neighborhoods in Chicago--maybe urban areas of Evanston can count, too. Sorry if I didn't keep up--I definitely am not for the argument that Naperville is somehow an urban metropolis.
What is the objective value? Salaries? You can definitely look around for that. Glass door is a decent site for it, though I find it off sometimes, but that might be an artifact of working in newer industries where job titles are extremely fluid/weird. It's pretty much why I ended up in NYC, which is, uh, a bit pricey.
And yea, you can earn less or more at a small or medium size company--people have different career tracks, but major international corporate jobs are good because if you rise through its ranks you can get something really cushy and the opportunities available to you after putting in some good/absolutely awful years with those years on the resume can net you pretty good things at smaller companies with that name check.
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