Illinois - Staying or Moving? (Chicago, Madison: daycare, calculator, wage)

[OyCrumbler]

Originally Posted by numberfive

That list is never getting filled out. IrishIllini has no idea what makes a city comparable to Chicago, it's all arbitrary. In some ways Chicago is better than Atlanta, and other ways it's worse.

Anyone that claims otherwise has a very short-sighted view.

Well, if you went by better or worse for a particular person, sure, but I don't see how IrishIllini was getting at that at all. If you really wanted something as straightforward as what it seems you're saying, then it's pretty much already settled. Take Chicago and its metro's population, draw a cut-off from there. Do the same with the number of Fortune 500 headquarters. Do the same with the number of direct flights to the number of cities, number of countries, etc. served. Do the same with the number of foreign consulates. Do the same with the number of mass transit ridership broken down by rail and bus. Do the same with the gross metropolitan product. Do the same with the attendance record and collection size of the museums. Do the same with NSF or NIH funding granted to institutions in the area. Do the same with research university rankings of university rankings in the area.

Take the number and draw that line if you think that's what's useful, but the question is why you think that arbitrary number is more useful than just looking at the listed metrics and the discrepancies between Chicago and other cities mentioned. It doesn't make much sense to me in a comparison when his argument is actually more substantiative. I admit I'm struggling to understand what your point really is.

[numberfive]

One more thing... he thinks a couple links to the cost of living and Fortune 500 listings is all it takes, and razzle dazzle hocus pocus Chicago magically can't be compared to Atlanta or Dallas?

Nope. Not true at all.

[OyCrumbler]

Originally Posted by numberfive

One more thing... he thinks a couple links to the cost of living and Fortune 500 listings is all it takes, and razzle dazzle hocus pocus Chicago magically can't be compared to Atlanta or Dallas?

Nope. Not true at all.

What's the razzle dazzle? The numbers? If you wanted metrics so badly, then what's the razzle dazzle hocus pocus part of his post? I just listed maybe a half dozen or so, but there can easily be more, metrics that people often use in various ways to compare cities. What special criteria are you looking for specifically if none of these work for you? You can even throw in institutions doing aggregate rankings of various metrics like GaWC, Global Cities Index, Global Economic Power Index, etc. which would routinely put Chicago atop of virtually any city mentioned and which do base their studies on concrete numbers (though arbitrary weightings). There's a lot to work with here and it's kind of up to you to figure out what specific criteria you're trying to dig out that seems to go against the overwhelmingly prevailing consensus from these studies. Like, what is your criteria that needs to be fit if all those raw numbers and all those aggregate studies don't do it for you? What is your standard that you're trying to put in there and define since all those numbers and studies don't work for your criteria? The big mystery here is your criteria, not the numbers which are set.

[oldhousegirl]

Originally Posted by Atlanta_BD

Jusrabystander and MyKindOfTown are right.

Chicago native here who moved to Atlanta (lived there several years and couldn't wait to leave) and now Dallas (been here 2 1/2 and would pack up and leave tomorrow if I could), I assure you neither city are on par with Chicago in terms of infrastructure, cultural offerings and amenities.

I want to move back to Chicago, but I had also been reluctant because of the budget crisis and tax situation there. But I am so over living in the South, and so bored out of my skull living in Dallas that I'm willing to take the risk at this point. The only thing that's stopping me from moving back to Chicago is finding a job.

Neither Atlanta or Dallas is cheap anymore. I always thought Atlanta was too expensive for what it was when I moved there many years ago, and the cost of living there has just gotten progressively higher over the years. Since moving to the Dallas area in 2014, the rents and housing costs have shot up astronomically here. Both Atlanta and Dallas are on par with Chicago in terms of cost of housing (or getting there fast) and property taxes in Dallas are high. What you are not paying an income tax, you will more than make up for in property taxes in the Dallas area. A saving grace is that there're also isn't any taxes on food. Still, I don't know if that amounts up to a huge savings in terms of the property taxes. There are also lots of toll roads in Dallas. And interstates that are not toll roads, now tolls are being added to them.

Yes both cities have professional sports teams and a symphony, and performing arts centers. But as far as what the cities themselves have in terms of anything that make them unique, they just don't have it. They are both just big suburbs--Dallas even more so--and is so sprawling that if you want to try to do any kind of activities, you find yourself driving 15 to 40 miles one way just to get anywhere worth doing. Everything closes early. And there is no real nightlife to speak of except one or two areas.

Atlanta is semi-boring. Dallas is mind-numbingly boring. Though I didn't like Atlanta, I am starting to appreciate some things about Atlanta more now that I live in Dallas.

Maybe there are no words people can say to help you understand. You really do have to experience living in places like Dallas and Atlanta to truly understand, after living in Chicago. I definitely have a greater appreciation for Chicago now. And I have always loved my hometown.

There are some things that I like and appreciate about Atlanta, and the same applies to Dallas. However if I had to absolutely choose between Chicago, Atlanta and Dallas to live, I would choose Chicago hands down.

If you want a life that revolves around living in a big house in the suburbs, going to shopping malls, strip malls, and eating at crappy chain restaurants, then the south is your place. If you want a little more action than that, then I say avoid it.

14% Increase Coming In Dallas County? Texas Has Fifth Highest Property Tax Burden in the USA | Candy's Dirt

A taxing problem: Dallas property taxes squeeze middle class while wealthy, businesses reap advantages

Well said. If ya ain't ever lived in "The South" you really wouldn't know. We were super eager to move out of suburban Chicago - I felt, as one who grew up in the heart of the north side, that I had pretty much "done Chicago". Oh my gosh I can't begin to say how much I appreciate Chicago after having lived in suburban Phoenix and now suburban Atlanta.

I think I can even do snow again. The main sticky issues are the tax problem and the violence problem.

[numberfive]

Originally Posted by OyCrumbler

What's the razzle dazzle? The numbers? If you wanted metrics so badly, then what's the razzle dazzle hocus pocus part of his post? I just listed maybe a half dozen or so, but there can easily be more, metrics that people often use in various ways to compare cities. What special criteria are you looking for specifically if none of these work for you? You can even throw in institutions doing aggregate rankings of various metrics like GaWC, Global Cities Index, Global Economic Power Index, etc. which would routinely put Chicago atop of virtually any city mentioned and which do base their studies on concrete numbers (though arbitrary weightings). There's a lot to work with here and it's kind of up to you to figure out what specific criteria you're trying to dig out that seems to go against the overwhelmingly prevailing consensus from these studies. Like, what is your criteria that needs to be fit if all those raw numbers and all those aggregate studies don't do it for you? What is your standard that you're trying to put in there and define since all those numbers and studies don't work for your criteria? The big mystery here is your criteria, not the numbers which are set.

He made the claim that you can't compare Chicago to other cities like Dallas or Atlanta, not me. I just asked him to prove it, which he's failed to do page after page.

I think this horse is dead enough.

[OyCrumbler]

Originally Posted by numberfive

He made the claim that you can't compare Chicago to other cities like Dallas or Atlanta, not me. I just asked him to prove it, which he's failed to do page after page.

I think this horse is dead enough.

Yea, because you don't seem to be able to establish a criteria while discounting everything else brought up. Who brought in the dead horse here?

[numberfive]

Originally Posted by OyCrumbler

Yea, because you don't seem to be able to establish a criteria while discounting everything else brought up. Who brought in the dead horse here?

[Gemini1963]

Originally Posted by oldhousegirl

I think I can even do snow again. . . .

This made me laugh. That was pretty much the way we felt when we were finally leaving Austin (which - don't get me wrong - was great . . . until it wasn't anymore). Water? Four seasons? Public Transportation? SIGN ME UP!

[My Kind Of Town]

Originally Posted by oldhousegirl

Well said. If ya ain't ever lived in "The South" you really wouldn't know. We were super eager to move out of suburban Chicago - I felt, as one who grew up in the heart of the north side, that I had pretty much "done Chicago". Oh my gosh I can't begin to say how much I appreciate Chicago after having lived in suburban Phoenix and now suburban Atlanta.

I think I can even do snow again. The main sticky issues are the tax problem and the violence problem.

Well in time global warming appears to be taking care of the large snowfall totals in Chicago (half joking) and the violence problem really isn't a factor if you live in a middle class or better neighborhood.

[MassVt]

Originally Posted by My Kind Of Town

Lol yea no kidding. I would never live in Illinois if it weren't for Chicago and millions of people in this state would say the same thing. Just as I wouldn't live in Wisconsin without Milwaukee or Madison or Minnesota without the Twin Cities. Thankfully, Chicago isn't going away in my lifetime phew

True statement about all three states. Outside of these metro areas, the remaining geographic areas just don't have much attraction to me. It's also not much of an argument to move to another area solely on the basis on getting a slightly-bigger house, as though that was the only thing worth considering...

For all its problems, Chicago is still pretty exciting, and still a good financial deal, esp when compared to both Coasts..