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Old 06-24-2018, 10:33 AM
 
35,868 posts, read 19,345,176 times
Reputation: 16923

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Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderstruck666 View Post
A pension is a promise. Promises are made to be kept. If it means laying off half the current employees and cutting services, then so be it. Eventually current employees are going to figure out the money deducted from their paycheck is not being used to fund their future retirement, it's being used for the current retirees.
How do you promise someone elses money?
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Old 06-24-2018, 12:04 PM
 
Location: Brackenwood
6,208 posts, read 2,462,502 times
Reputation: 13403
Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderstruck666 View Post
A pension is a promise. Promises are meant to be kept.
says someone who has already ducked out of paying his portion of that "promise" by leaving. It's one thing to promise to pay benefits that have already been earned. It's quite another to promise to pay benefits that haven't even accrued yet. And by buying the politicians who approved the pensions, the unions effectively promised those benefits TO THEMSELVES using taxpayer money.

The bigger problem is, the people on the hook to pay for those promises are not captive prisoners. Illinois taxpayers have already figured out more and more of their future property value was promised to someone else BY someone else and their only recourse is to leave -- and that's exactly what they've been doing. Non-resident migrants can see what's going on too and decide they'd rather move somewhere else than here. As a result Illinois had a net negative migration of 115,000 people in 2017 alone. The wife and I hope to be part of the out-migration count for 2019 at the latest. We've come to terms with the fact we'll have to take a loss on our house to do it, but better to rip off the band-aid off now than to accumulate a bigger and bigger loss over time.

What are the people who were promised those benefits going to do when there aren't enough people or high enough property values left to pay for those promises? Start confiscating property?


Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderstruck666 View Post
Eventually current employees are going to figure out the money deducted from their paycheck is not being used to fund their future retirement, it's being used for the current retirees.
Tier II government workers already know they're getting screwed compared to their Tier I counterparts, They contribute almost as much as Tier I employees but with much less generous benefits. Why anyone would accept that is beyond me, I guess they feel it's worth it for the relative security of a government job.

Last edited by Bitey; 06-24-2018 at 12:20 PM..
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Old 06-24-2018, 01:02 PM
 
49 posts, read 35,864 times
Reputation: 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest View Post
How do you promise someone elses money?
Promises can not defy financial reality. Just ask Puerto Rico or Bernie Madoff
Then again let those people that keep saying *Pensions are a promise* find out the hard way when the entire system collapses and everyone's life is ruined in Illinois. Maybe they will wake up then.
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Old 07-10-2018, 08:55 AM
 
2,130 posts, read 1,061,620 times
Reputation: 2822
Report: Poor roads cost Illinois drivers $16 billion per year - News - The State Journal-Register - Springfield, IL


Every state road in this area is falling apart, pathetic.
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Old 07-10-2018, 11:24 AM
 
28,461 posts, read 76,025,696 times
Reputation: 18533
Default It is now becoming somewhat routine for municipalities to promise that sort of thing...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest View Post
How do you promise someone elses money?

Riverdale Will be Third Illinois Municipality to Sell Body Parts Under New ‘Securitization’ Law – Quicktake | Wirepoints


The madness of fiscal meltdown in Illinois is forcing cities and villages to sign away any future revenue rights to bond holders. That means should the municipality declare bankruptcy the bond holders will attach to revenues from the state.
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Old 07-12-2018, 10:32 AM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
2,653 posts, read 2,248,665 times
Reputation: 2819
Quote:
Originally Posted by pvande55 View Post
That's the problem. If the law could be revised to prevent anyone receiving a State-funded pension from collecting if not maintaining a legal domicile inside Illinois it would be more fair. I do not pretend that most of those leaving are former Illinois payrollers, but those ought to be forced to stay.
That sounds "un-American" to me.
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Old 07-12-2018, 10:45 AM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
2,653 posts, read 2,248,665 times
Reputation: 2819
My question is, where were all the voters (NOT employed in state or local jobs) when the crooked polititians promised these unsustainable benefits to public union employees?

I agree--now would not be the time to buy a home in Chicagoland (or IL in general I guess.) Sad.

Seems to me IL needs to copy what the WI Governor did to reign in the public emoyee unions' power. But maybe too little too late.
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Old 07-12-2018, 10:59 AM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
2,653 posts, read 2,248,665 times
Reputation: 2819
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitey View Post
says someone who has already ducked out of paying his portion of that "promise" by leaving. It's one thing to promise to pay benefits that have already been earned. It's quite another to promise to pay benefits that haven't even accrued yet. And by buying the politicians who approved the pensions, the unions effectively promised those benefits TO THEMSELVES using taxpayer money.

The bigger problem is, the people on the hook to pay for those promises are not captive prisoners. Illinois taxpayers have already figured out more and more of their future property value was promised to someone else BY someone else and their only recourse is to leave -- and that's exactly what they've been doing. Non-resident migrants can see what's going on too and decide they'd rather move somewhere else than here. As a result Illinois had a net negative migration of 115,000 people in 2017 alone. The wife and I hope to be part of the out-migration count for 2019 at the latest. We've come to terms with the fact we'll have to take a loss on our house to do it, but better to rip off the band-aid off now than to accumulate a bigger and bigger loss over time.

What are the people who were promised those benefits going to do when there aren't enough people or high enough property values left to pay for those promises? Start confiscating property?



Tier II government workers already know they're getting screwed compared to their Tier I counterparts, They contribute almost as much as Tier I employees but with much less generous benefits. Why anyone would accept that is beyond me, I guess they feel it's worth it for the relative security of a government job.
You make good points. I'll just point out that IL govt employers aren't the only ones putting in place these Tier I/ Tier II benefits (new employees get Tier II.) CA and many of its counties are doing this as well. At least the new employees are getting employment and valuable on the job experience.
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Old 07-13-2018, 02:01 PM
 
49 posts, read 35,864 times
Reputation: 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by pvande55 View Post
That's the problem. If the law could be revised to prevent anyone receiving a State-funded pension from collecting if not maintaining a legal domicile inside Illinois it would be more fair. I do not pretend that most of those leaving are former Illinois payrollers, but those ought to be forced to stay.
Ummm you might be living in the wrong country if you think that idea is going to pass a constitutional challenge. Free movement is part of living in America and go ahead pass a law like that. See how it stands up to a Court Challenge.
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Old 07-17-2018, 09:01 AM
 
Location: broke leftist craphole Illizuela
9,876 posts, read 14,800,168 times
Reputation: 18482
Quote:
Originally Posted by DougStark View Post

Seems to me IL needs to copy what the WI Governor did to reign in the public emoyee unions' power. But maybe too little too late.
Yep basically the State has no leverage in negotiating with the Unions. You can't fire them for striking, except for possibly a few critical positions you can't force them back to work and the Dems rely on Union money so the Unions got everything they wanted and the taxpayers got bent.

The state is run more like organized crime than a legitimate govt.
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