Gov. J.B. Pritzker unveils graduated state income tax plan he says would give break to taxpayers earning less than $250K

[RisingAurvandil]

Originally Posted by MSchemist80

How about we don't have a government that takes enormous amounts of money and spends >30% of it giving a select group of government workers lavish retirement benefits at the expense of the taxpayer serfs who have to fund their own retirement and now with less money. How's that for fairness?

If the taxpayers hadn't shafted the retirement systems for decades, they wouldn't be paying as much now. I wouldn't call the retirement benefits lavish either. The state retirement age has been raised to 67. And a huge number of public employees don't receive Social Security.

You're upset because older generations skipped their responsibility to pay. I can understand that. But without an amendment to the U.S. Constitution's contracts clause, I only see two solutions: pay the bills, or default creditors.

Originally Posted by prairiestate

Oh good, someone else did it for me.
https://www.illinoispolicy.org/moody...for-any-state/

I may not be a finance expert like you, but this sounds bad.
"According to a new report by Moody’s Investors Service, Illinois’ unfunded pension liabilities equaled 601 percent of state revenues in 2017, a U.S. record"

Even using Moodys' numbers and the IPI article, the pensions payments appear to equal approximately 1/3 of state revenue. That's a lot, but it's not crippling. It doesn't even meet private banking thresholds for credit denial. In simpler terms, it's not unusual for folks to pay more than that on their mortgages or business loans. And furthermore, nobody can issue a call order on pension debt, which also has no collateral or interest rate.

Originally Posted by prairiestate

What makes you think we have decades to wait for tier 1 employees to diminish?

The article that you linked literally shows that in a graph. And it's just common sense. Tier 1 was eliminated almost ten years ago. The last tier 1 worker began working in 2010, so it will take at a few decades to see a large reduction in tier 1 retirees.

[MSchemist80]

Originally Posted by RisingAurvandil

If the taxpayers hadn't shafted the retirement systems for decades, they wouldn't be paying as much now. I wouldn't call the retirement benefits lavish either. The state retirement age has been raised to 67. And a huge number of public employees don't receive Social Security.

You're upset because older generations skipped their responsibility to pay. I can understand that. But without an amendment to the U.S. Constitution's contracts clause, I only see two solutions: pay the bills, or default creditors.

There is a good reason the private sector got rid of pensions, they knew very well that they were a recipe for bankruptcy. Even the Federal government got rid of them in favor of a 401k system the TSP. I see no reason the government should be abusing their power to take money from taxpayers and spend 1/3 of it providing retirement benefits to cronies.

[smegmatite]

Originally Posted by RisingAurvandil

Even using Moodys' numbers and the IPI article, the pensions payments appear to equal approximately 1/3 of state revenue. That's a lot, but it's not crippling. It doesn't even meet private banking thresholds for credit denial. In simpler terms, it's not unusual for folks to pay more than that on their mortgages or business loans. And furthermore, nobody can issue a call order on pension debt, which also has no collateral or interest rate.

Pension + debt payments on bonds is over 50% of revenues! Running a state is not the same as running a household... when half your dollars for SERVICES go towards people not working/living here and freaking debt interest, your services are going to be terrible and you are going to wind up having to pay a lot more for the same thing as more fiscially responsible states

[Jon998877]

Originally Posted by smegmatite

Pension + debt payments on bonds is over 50% of revenues! Running a state is not the same as running a household... when half your dollars for SERVICES go towards people not working/living here and freaking debt interest, your services are going to be terrible and you are going to wind up having to pay a lot more for the same thing as more fiscially responsible states

I always find it funny that people want to gripe about the cost of the pensions, but we never hear nearly as much griping about all of the state entitlement programs out there. So yeah, lets attack the working people and leave the lazy and their free money alone..

[GhostOfAndrewJackson]

Originally Posted by Jon998877

I always find it funny that people want to gripe about the cost of the pensions, but we never hear nearly as much griping about all of the state entitlement programs out there. So yeah, lets attack the working people and leave the lazy and their free money alone..

I did and you attempted to castigate the concept. The biggest entitlement out there are pubic schools. It takes a certain socialist mentality to think the State should confiscate the just earnings of lawful citizens in order to pay for the for the education of other people's children that are brought into this world deliberately through an entirely voluntary and consensual act.

Moreover the system has failed in its mission to provide a classic liberal education in order to assure an enlightened group of voters. It is horribly inefficient and relies on a ridiculous paradigm of teach lead classroom instruction that confines each child to the artificial learning barrier of the advancement of their peers instead of allowing each child to progress at their natural rate and to the height of their individual abilities. Teacher lead classroom instruction is an expensive, inefficient, ineffective antiquated relic of the past.

If you want entitlement reform, begin with the public school system. It is the largest entitlement program out there.

[damba]

Originally Posted by GhostOfAndrewJackson

I did and you attempted to castigate the concept. The biggest entitlement out there are pubic schools. It takes a certain socialist mentality to think the State should confiscate the just earnings of lawful citizens in order to pay for the for the education of other people's children that are brought into this world deliberately through an entirely voluntary and consensual act.

Moreover the system has failed in its mission to provide a classic liberal education in order to assure an enlightened group of voters. It is horribly inefficient and relies on a ridiculous paradigm of teach lead classroom instruction that confines each child to the artificial learning barrier of the advancement of their peers instead of allowing each child to progress at their natural rate and to the height of their individual abilities. Teacher lead classroom instruction is an expensive, inefficient, ineffective antiquated relic of the past.

If you want entitlement reform, begin with the public school system. It is the largest entitlement program out there.

Get off your high horse.

It was only a ‘learning barrier’ for your kids (probably) because you had a conservative or religious agenda and refused to play together in the sandbox. Or maybe your particular school(s) just sucked(?)

Yeah, ‘solve the budget problem’ <ahem> by taking all of your marbles and going home.

[PJSaturn]

Okay, kids. It's time to close this thread. Bickering gets us nowhere. Several posts have been deleted, but I believe the thread has run its course and is not worth reopening.

PS - Please do not report a post and then reply to it. It only perpetuates the problem.

.