TAXES for Illinois - TV Ad (section 8, house, employment)

[Tall Traveler]

Originally Posted by BRU67

People of low socioeconomic status consume alcohol, smoke, and buy lottery tickets at a much higher rate than middle and upper classes. So you are deflecting from the real issue when you try to make it seem as though these are things everyone does, but one group is getting hit worse due to arbitrary high taxes on these items. That isn't the case.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3673268/

https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/disparit...-ses/index.htm

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...riking-it-rich

Also, people who are lower-income tend to not to have health insurance, and are thus more dependent on the public trust. So when they get in car accidents, fights, and develop cancer, it ends up costing us.

And even if you were right, who cares? They both should be taxed for these vices. We want to discourage them. And if that impacts those of lower socioeconomic status more, those are the individuals who most need to stop, because the impact is higher there.

Different subject but doesn't change the fact that the Illinois tax structure is very regressive (ours in Washington state even more so) that is unfair to the lower and middle classes.

[BRU67]

I don't know. Somehow, I don't think just picking on the poor got us to 51st on this list.

https://wallethub.com/edu/best-worst...taxpayer/2416/

If anything, I'd say property owners, who tend to be middle and upper middle class, are taking it more in the shorts than people buying lottery tickets, 40s of Old English, and Marlboro Reds at the local J.J. Pepper! Now we're talking about stripping away the only protection they have. I'd vote no to this hare brained plan.

[Jon998877]

Originally Posted by Tall Traveler

Different subject but doesn't change the fact that the Illinois tax structure is very regressive (ours in Washington state even more so) that is unfair to the lower and middle classes.

So if someone is making $40K and paying $2000 in state income tax, and a guy making $400K and is paying $20K, it’s unfair for the guy paying $18K less?

[BRU67]

Originally Posted by Jon998877

So if someone is making $40K and paying $2000 in state income tax, and a guy making $400K and is paying $20K, it’s unfair for the guy paying $18K less?

And there are exceptions too. I think he is advocating that lower-income people pay less by percentage then the wealthy.

It sounds great when your cool hip professor is saying it . The problem though is going to be the effective tax rate. That is going to get very high on the high-income earners and job producers. Where Illinois really bites you is property taxes. And the wealthy pay much higher property taxes than the poor relatively, because they are more likely to own real estate, and own it in more expensive areas.

Adding a higher income tax to their already too high effective tax rate will cause them to leave the state. Then, starved for revenue, the state will start taxing lower and lower brackets at higher rates. Terrible idea, IMO.

[Tall Traveler]

Originally Posted by Jon998877

So if someone is making $40K and paying $2000 in state income tax, and a guy making $400K and is paying $20K, it’s unfair for the guy paying $18K less?

Yes, because when factoring the other taxes paid by each, the lower income person is paying a higher effective tax rate....also, in my opinion, a flat tax is unfair on its face because it further contributes to wealth inequality which is a huge problem currently.

[Jon998877]

So the guy paying $2K a year is paying their fair share, the guy paying $20K a year is not.. shall we also factor in the other entitlement programs the poor get into that equation as well??

It’s a total reflection on society when they hard working and successful are blamed for the problems, not those that choose to not work and live off the government

[BRU67]

Originally Posted by Tall Traveler

Yes, because when factoring the other taxes paid by each, the lower income person is paying a higher effective tax rate....also, in my opinion, a flat tax is unfair on its face because it further contributes to wealth inequality which is a huge problem currently.

Do you have a cite for this, factoring in property taxes? You keep saying it but I haven't seen any evidence.

It's very progressive to say the poor are getting stiffed at the hands of the evil rich, who laughingly avoid any tax liability. Really that's been true for several decades now. But back in my day, we were shown evidence that this wasn't really the case, and that the issue was more complex than just looking at a few numbers in a vacuum.

Now, we just let 'em run with it. So either I was being lied to or we have a serious issue with people spouting off talking points without really thinking. So let's see some data. Thanks!

[BRU67]

Also, to add to this, the lower income brackets tend to rely more on public services and programs than do the middle and upper middle classes. Jon alludes to this in his post. So if you're going to use services, why should you not have to pay for them?

I know that wealthier taxpayers and businesses pay a disproportionate share of the revenue used to fund these services and programs. But even if they did not, if you use something, you should contribute to it. IMO of course.

[Jon998877]

I was a fence sitter on some of this stuff until a few weeks ago when I was in Jewel, and I can not make this up.. The couple in front of me wreaked of pot, bought a better selection of food than me, whipped out their SNAP card and then complained to the cashier that if the rich would pay more taxes that maybe their monthly amount would allow them to buy everything they wanted..

I can't believe I didn't end up in a fight lol

[BRU67]

Originally Posted by Tall Traveler

Yes, because when factoring the other taxes paid by each, the lower income person is paying a higher effective tax rate....also, in my opinion, a flat tax is unfair on its face because it further contributes to wealth inequality which is a huge problem currently.

On this point, did your professor talk about those who are less financially responsible spending more relative to income on consumer purchases such as cars, electronics, etc that carry high sales taxes than those who are better at managing money? The former group tends to be low income, while the latter tends to be higher income (they make better choices). So that might contribute to the former group paying more relatively in sales taxes.