Repeal the smoking ban (bars, electric, water)

[Moe III]

Originally Posted by cubssoxfan

Quick search did not support my statement. However, after reading this: Secondhand Smoke: Questions and Answers - National Cancer Institute
I can accurately say 2nd hand smoke causes cancer.

Of course, based on this information. However, at it's foundation is flawed research. A full explanation can be found here.

Originally Posted by cubssoxfan

Really the issue is how poorly restaraunts seperated smoking and non-smoking sections. Too many meals in a "non-smoking" section ruined by smoke wafting over and irritating my lungs and eyes. I'm sorry, but if I wanted my food "smoked", I would have ordered it that way.

Good one.

Originally Posted by cubssoxfan

AND not enough restaurants were completely smoke free, so I felt my rights to breathe clean air were being violated.

I always felt that not enough were smoking and although I didn't like it I always respected the verdict of the free market because I knew it was fair. This means that I was always seeking that one in five restaurants that allowed smoking. Your mistaking your right to breath clean air with smoeone else obligation to provide it. They is no violation of rights. If I come to your house and find you wearing stinky colon that I am allergic to does this mean that you are violating my right to breath clean air? It's your property and I don't have to be there.

Originally Posted by cubssoxfan

So as smokers became the majority, we did force our will on the laws.

This is known as tyranny of the masses and it is exactly what the Constitution and Bill of Rights is designed to prevent. If everyone in the neighborhood hated blue houses they should be outlawed?

Originally Posted by cubssoxfan

And I can flip the argument of "Nobody forces you into a smoking restaurant", and say, nobody forces you into a non-smoking restaurant either.

Not a fair comparison, non smoking restaurants were not outlawed. You always rightly had an alternative, so should smokers.

[Moe III]

Originally Posted by kap121483

Avengerfire--precisely the reason for exhaust checks. Cars have become a necessity, while cigarettes certainly haven't. Don't muddy the waters by changing the subject. Fool.

You can't get away from car exhaust, but one voluntarily chooses to go to a smoking restaurant. The air on the streets is public, that inside a restaurants is private.

[mysticaltyger]

Originally Posted by BROADCASTER1317

I AM A FIRM BELIEVER FOR SMOKERS RIGHTS.

SMOKING SHOULD BE ALOWED IN BARS, LOUNGES AND RESTAURANTS.

I AM NOT A DRINKER AND I DO NOT HIT THE BARS.

I GO OUT FOR BREAKFAST SEVERAL TIMES A WEEK AND I DO ENJOY SIPPING ON A HOT CUP OF COFFEE AFTER I FINISH EATING. I ALSO ENJOY HAVING A SMOKE WHILE READING THE NEWSPAPER AFTER BREAKFAST WHILE INSIDE OF A RESTAURANT.

LETS GET BACK TO BASICS FOLKS, THE GOVENOR OF ILLINOIS DOES NOT SMOKE, YET HE INSISTS OF FORCING RULES AND INTRODUCING LAWS ON US ILLINOISANS. BUT WE DON'T NEED TO WORRY ABOUT HIM ANYMORE, HE WILL BE WITH HIS BIG BROTHER GEORGE RYAN FOR A WHILE.

I can't belive there's even a debate about this. California banned smoking in bars & restaurants back in the late 1990s. The world didn't end.

[mysticaltyger]

Originally Posted by Avengerfire

Lets ban the gasoline and the vehicle internal combustion engine then.

I bet you though you were pretty smart making your statement.

We haven't banned them, but cars and other engines that burn fossil fuels pollute less with each new model year....so the trend is going toward cleaner air whether you're talking about car exhaust or cigarette exhaust.

[Avengerfire]

Originally Posted by mysticaltyger

We haven't banned them, but cars and other engines that burn fossil fuels pollute less with each new model year....so the trend is going toward cleaner air whether you're talking about car exhaust or cigarette exhaust.

I bet an average car puts out more pollutants and toxins in a week than it would take a smoker to put out in an entire year. And of course the pollutants and toxins from car exhaust are far worse. Lock yourself in a garage with 10 chain smokers for an hour-I bet you will not die within the hour. Lock yourself in a garage with a car running for an hour and you will. End of story.

[Avengerfire]

Originally Posted by mysticaltyger

...California banned smoking in bars & restaurants back in the late 1990s. The world didn't end.

The more Illinois has followed the laws and policies of California the worse off it has become. Look at the budget problems of each. Two worse in the nation? Am I correct here? Hmmm.

[sandwalk]

Keep the ban, please. It's nice not having my clothes smell like cigarette smoke after leaving a restaurant. Thanks.

[Avengerfire]

^ We dont care about the restaurants. We want the ability to smoke in some bars at least. ^

[cubssoxfan]

Originally Posted by Moe III

Of course, based on this information. However, at it's foundation is flawed research. A full explanation can be found here.


Good one.



I always felt that not enough were smoking and although I didn't like it I always respected the verdict of the free market because I knew it was fair. This means that I was always seeking that one in five restaurants that allowed smoking. Your mistaking your right to breath clean air with smoeone else obligation to provide it. They is no violation of rights. If I come to your house and find you wearing stinky colon that I am allergic to does this mean that you are violating my right to breath clean air? It's your property and I don't have to be there.



This is known as tyranny of the masses and it is exactly what the Constitution and Bill of Rights is designed to prevent. If everyone in the neighborhood hated blue houses they should be outlawed?

Not a fair comparison, non smoking restaurants were not outlawed. You always rightly had an alternative, so should smokers.

No we didn't. Virtually no non-smoking restaurants to be found. Large majority of non-smoking sections were either too close to smoking sections, poorly seperated or had inadequate ventilation.
Really I don't mind if you smoke. Your choice. I am concerned about it raising ALL our health insurance costs, but that is a separate discussion.
I do mind when I cannot easily find a restaurant where I'm not subjected to 2nd hand smoke. And that was my experience before the law was passed. As I stated, bars that do not serve food should be able to choose as long as it is clearly marked out front. Your Nicotine addiction should not affect my "right" to breathe air free of cigarette smoke.
Your Bill of Rights argument is flawed. So auto makers should not be required to add all the safety feature they have the last few decades because it tramples my rights to buy a less expensive car? Many were "forced" on them by regulation, not the free market. What about all the other Consumer safety laws? This is the government regulating my health and safety in a positive way.
The cologne argument, if you said something, I'd go wash it off. I wouldn't even put too much on to begin with. But then again I was raised to be aware of & considerate to those around me; and that is probably what irked me most about 2nd hand smoke, how inconsiderate I felt the smokers were because it was their right to smoke in a restaurant, my lungs & eyes be dam*ed. AND I would be p*ssed at the restaurant owner for being too stingy and/or too ignorant to adequetely seperate me from the 2nd hand smoke.

But I don't expect this to end in all of us saying "You're right, lets sit and sing Kumba Ya". I'm an ex-smoker, and I may have sided with you if I was still a smoker. Not sure though, because if I was in a small room with too many smokers it would irritate my eyes and my lungs.
Now, just don't get me started on all the cigarette butts I see being tossed out of car windows. Where is that regulation to force automakers to put ash trays back in cars as standard equipment?

[Moe III]

Originally Posted by ImaloneJill

Does a private property owner also have the right to not wash their hands after going to the bathroom and serving food, or not adhere to basic sanitation (refrigeration, storage, etc.) because it is their property? And if they feel 18 years old is old enough to drink liquor, should that be allowed also on their property?

Maybe he does have the right to not wash his hands if he makes you aware of that fact before serving you. Then if your stupid enough to stay, but I think he would soon be out of business. You are comparing apples and oranges. You know that there is smoking going on, you don't know if he washed his hands. Should we ban susi restaurants for every one that hates Susi ?