Proposed gas tax hike (taxi, high income, sales tax)

[meatpuff]

Originally Posted by ccjarider

The recession was caused by gov't interference in the housing market. Starting with Carter and reemphasized by Clinton; govt policy pursued a program that a large percentage of home ownership is good for society. Gov't first pressured companies to loan $ to people with income levels that never should have qualified and second gov't became the backer of loans, thus removing risk from banks.

It was a house of cards destined to fall down and it was initiated decades ago by gov't. Now we look to the same fools to solve a problem they created.

Whatever. I'm leaving this one alone after this. It seems as though you subscribe to the theories of certain conservative commentators that mostly blame government overreach, particularly by liberals in government, for the current economic problems. I disagree. In my view that is only a tiny part of a complex and nuanced web of events. This is not a political forum so we will just have to agree to disagree. There are plenty of hotheaded political forums we could join where people would explain to you why you are wrong (and to me why I am wrong).

Back to the original topic concerning a proposal to raise the gas tax. It occurs to me that there remain some Reaganomics true believers who are sure that no matter the tax and no matter the rate, it would be better for everyone if it were lower. To them, the increase of any tax making things better makes as much sense as someone advocating in support of child abuse. It is self-evident that is a bad idea.

Once again, in this case arguing will get me nowhere. We will just have to agree to disagree.

[studedude]

Tax revenue is down because gas prices are up and people are using less gas. Lets make gas more expensive. That will fix the problem.

Are Madigan and Stroger on speaking terms?

[ccjarider]

Originally Posted by meatpuff

Once again, in this case arguing will get me nowhere. We will just have to agree to disagree.

I guess you are right that we will agree to disagree on this. I appreciate your polite acknowledgement of this reality as opposed to a rant. It is a professional trait that I need to implement more myself. Have a good day.

As far as original topic. IL can do more to reduce expenses. The current proposal to raise gas tax would put IL at the second highest gas tax in nation right behind NY.

[Chicago60614]

They should tag this with inflation instead of arbitrarily rasing it every 10 years. It would cause less commotion.

I'm fine with the increase, since when it was pegged at 19 cents most everything was much cheaper. I suppose it should rise with everything else.

[Drover]

Originally Posted by sukwoo

Actually, I think its high time to invest in our dilapidated highway and transit systems. The state gas tax hasn't been raised since 1990, and its not indexed to inflation.

We already have among the highest gas taxes in the country, especially in Cook and the collar counties where we have the RTA tax as well, and despite a large portion of our interestate system being supported by tolls. And let's not lose sight of the fact that the 19c flat rate tax is supplemented by a 6.25% sales tax (which includes the 19c per gallon flat rate tax so you're paying a tax on a tax) plus an additional .3% for the "underground storage tank fund," whatever the great flying Hell that is. So before I would even consider getting on board with this, I'd like to know what the hell they're doing with the piles of cash they're already pulling in.

Gas station owners in Hammond and Munster must be salivating.

[Dreickx]

I don't care what they do with the money from a gas tax. They need to encourage more efficient vehicles and deter people from driving if they have a choice. As far as I'm concerned they can double the price of gas with their tax. It will help discourage sprawl, long commutes, and big wasteful vehicles, all of which are major societal ills if one takes a long-term perspective.

[Drover]

So, how's that mass transit development in Ford County going?

[ccjarider]

Dreickx:
Please elaborate why you beleive curbing people's choices in how they choose to live and spend their $ is worthwhile, in a "long term" perspective?

I hope you are not goingto say - global warming. That has been proven to be false.

[meatpuff]

Originally Posted by Drover

We already have among the highest gas taxes in the country, especially in Cook and the collar counties where we have the RTA tax as well, and despite a large portion of our interestate system being supported by tolls. And let's not lose sight of the fact that the 19c flat rate tax is supplemented by a 6.25% sales tax (which includes the 19c per gallon flat rate tax so you're paying a tax on a tax) plus an additional .3% for the "underground storage tank fund," whatever the great flying Hell that is. So before I would even consider getting on board with this, I'd like to know what the hell they're doing with the piles of cash they're already pulling in.

Gas station owners in Hammond and Munster must be salivating.

Well, let's look at the numbers. I'll look only at the 19 cents per gallon part, I'm not sure if the state sales tax on gasoline goes to same place.

A recent Feb 4 Tribune article said the increase from 19 to 27 cents per gallon would yield about $500 million per year, implying that the current 19 cents per gallon tax pulls in about $500MM*19/(27-19) = $1,200 million per year.

Now compare that revenue to a road project completed in 2007: the Dan Ryan renovation. Wikipedia says the total project, which was a renovation of the entire Dan Ryan Expressway, cost $975 million.

No doubt they got substantial federal money for the Dan Ryan renovation, slicing the cost to Illinois. But the gas tax revenues have to go to maintain roads in the whole state. The Dan Ryan is 11.4 miles long. There are about 135,000 miles of roads in Illinois. The Dan Ryan is unusually expensive to maintain, but you can see the magnitude of the job to maintain Illinois roads.

And that's just one project. Even if you just confine yourself to Chicagoland Interstates, they also extended I-355 in 2007. Then last year they did some work on I-294 and the Edens. More this year I'm sure.

My point is I don't share your suspicion: the road maintenance needs in Illinois are more than great enough to soak up the large gas tax revenues, and probably those from tolls and sales tax too.

[Drover]

Well I'm not so willing to cast my suspicion aside, and I also don't put much stock in static revenue analyses that ignore the fact that people respond to economic incentives by increasing or decreasing their consumption based on changes in cost. I want to know how much revenue is generated from gasoline taxes including the 6.25% receipt tax (and all of the toll revenues for that matter if you want to throw that into the mix), where it all goes, how they arrived at the $500M figure, and why having the 6th-highest gas taxes in the country on average (varies by county) in addition to tolls just isn't enough. And I'd also like to know what assurances we have that any hike in the gas tax will actually go where they say it will go instead of vanishing into a cosmic vacuum of corruption, incompetence, patronage and waste. Given the governance we've lived under for the last decade-plus, I don't know that any assurance could possibly be adequate.