Illinois is lacking a second city (Chicago, Peoria: stats, design, activity)

[mdand3boys]

Originally Posted by linicx

Absolutely nothing. This thread started with a question that has an obvious answer. Then came the guy that never lived anywhere except Kankakee that beieves Chicago is God's answer - to what I do not know. It was followed by comments from US Traveler who knows less about Illinois than the poster from Kankakee.

The bottom line is: I- Illinois is a farming state. 2- St. Louis is in Missouri; it is not the' second largest city in Illinois.

Only a couple of posters have come close to the answer - the obvious one...
You cannot just compare city size. You have to include metro area. In that case, Peoria should take real second-city honors since it has a metro area of over 300,000 and is not a suburb of Chicago or St. Louis. Peoria is a MAJOR railroad town with 14 lines, not to mention the river and the barge facilities, Caterpillar headquarters, etc.

[linicx]

Originally Posted by asearchforreason
Several problems here:
Minneapolis and St. Paul are basically the same city.
Why does Kansas city count for Kansas but St. Louis does not count for Illinois?

No they are not. Each city has its own government and they are divided by a county boundary. Proximity does not make the two separate cities equal one. Despite the fact they are loosely called the Twin Cities, the county seats are Ramsey and Hennepin.

There is a Kansas City in Kansas. Kansans pay taxes to the state of Kansas.

There is a Kansas City in Missouri. There is also a St. Louis in Missouri. Missourians pay taxes to the state of Missouri.

St. Louis taxes are not paid to the State of Illinois, any more than Chicago taxes are paid to the State of Missouri.

The St. Louis metro area does not include Illinois. It DOES include the suburbs within the 1-70, 1-270 and 1-370 loop. As far as I know this southern conservative state likes things just the way they are.

[QuadCityImages]

Originally Posted by mdand3boys

In that case, Peoria should take real second-city honors since it has a metro area of over 300,000 and is not a suburb of Chicago or St. Louis. Peoria is a MAJOR railroad town with 14 lines, not to mention the river and the barge facilities, Caterpillar headquarters, etc.

Quad Cities anyone? Larger metro area, larger river, plenty of railroads, also world HQ of a large farm/construction machinery company...

[linicx]

Originally Posted by QuadCityImages

Quad Cities anyone? Larger metro area, larger river, plenty of railroads, also world HQ of a large farm/construction machinery company...

Peoria is the world HQ of Caterpillar. Most people know the difference between the green John Deere farm tractor and the yellow Caterpallar earth moving equipment. We have a Ford, John Deere and Allis Chalmers in town. The Illinois River, which is a tributary of the Mississippi. is only a mile wide at its widest point, which is Peorial Lake. Peoria is also the largest city on the river. You could say, as a tributary, central Illinois has a piece of the Mississippi, too.

More importantly, Only two of the "Quad Cities" Rock Island and Moline, are in in Illinois! The population of the two cities combined is less than a 100,000 whereas the City of Peoria has a population of 113,000.

If you want to call Moline or Rock Island, the second city of Illinois please do. But you still have the same problem. It is not the Quad Cities. Iowans pay taxes to the State of Iowa and Illinois residents pay taxes to the State of Illinois. And the just like twin cities of Bloomington-Normal, and the twin cities of St. Paul and Minneapolis, Moline and Rock Island are two distinct cities in two counties.

We are right back where the tread began. Illinois doesn't have a second city on C-D US Forums because there is no city outside of Chicago, or the Chicago Suburbs, big enough to drive the traffic to warrant extra space on the server. If the second city was Central Illinois, the population would be great enough, but it still won't drive the traffic like mega-metro cities do - because Illinois is a farming state just like Iowa. .

[linicx]

It is interesting that no poster has stated a clear reason why Illinois needs a second city on US Forums.

[Maintainschaos]

Originally Posted by linicx

It is interesting that no poster has stated a clear reason why Illinois needs a second city on US Forums.

No one has been advocating another forum for a second city. The original poster just wanted to start a new topic about what people that would/should be considered the second city of Illinois...nothing about a new forum.

[k3worker]

Originally Posted by linicx

Originally Posted by asearchforreason

St. Louis taxes are not paid to the State of Illinois, any more than Chicago taxes are paid to the State of Missouri.

The St. Louis metro area does not include Illinois. It DOES include the suburbs within the 1-70, 1-270 and 1-370 loop. As far as I know this southern conservative state likes things just the way they are.

On what basis do you claim that the St. Louis metro area doesn't include Illinois? The Census Bureau includes Bond, Calhoun, Clinton, Jersey, Macoupin, Madison, Monroe, St. Clair, and Washington counties in Illinois in the St. Louis Metropolitan Statistical Area (MSA), which is one of the Federal government's official definitions of metropolitan areas. MSAs are delineated along the lines of economic and cultural ties to a central city. The state in which a central city is located and to which taxes are paid are factors having nothing to do with metropolitan areas as designated by the Federal government, and also as commonly understood by demographers and geographers. if anything, it has become evident in recent decades that state lines straddling major metro areas mean even less than they once did.

Thousands of Illinoisans crossing the Mississippi every day to go to work, and a good number of Missourians making the trip in reverse, constitute pretty clear evidence of economic linkages. Cultural linkages are abundantly clear with the countless numbers of Illinoisans who attend sporting and cultural events in St. Louis since it is the nearest big city with those types of amenities. Spend time in St. Clair and Madison counties as I have countless times visiting family, and it will be very obvious very quickly that you are in the St. Louis metro area when you consider everything from media markets to employment markets to sports allegiances.

St. Louis proper may not be in Illinois, but I stand by my original argument that it is to many Illinois residents in the central, and especially southern, parts of the state what Chicago is to northern Illinoisans. It's the nearest big city to which local economies are tied and to which people feel an allegiance.

[linicx]

It might very well be the folks in the southern counties feel an affinity to St. Louis, but it doesn't alter the fact that St. Louis is not in Illinois, and the City of St. Louis does not pay Illinois taxes. Threfore, St. Louis does not qualify as a second Illinois city.

[Jons99]

Originally Posted by linicx

It might very well be the folks in the southern counties feel an affinity to St. Louis, but it doesn't alter the fact that St. Louis is not in Illinois, and the City of St. Louis does not pay Illinois taxes. Threfore, St. Louis does not qualify as a second Illinois city.

Why ignore the question?

You said that St. Louis metro doesn't include Illinois, which it indeed does. Moderator cut: personal - off topic

[STLCardsBlues1989]

Originally Posted by linicx

I think for Southern Illinois and sourthen Central Illinois residents St. Louis is much closer. For residents around Peoria it is a matter or preference as its a couple hundred miles either way.

Some Peorians might identify with St. Louis when it comes to sports since St. Louis Blues' own the Peoria Rivermen there. I think the Cardinals might have had a minor-league team in Peoria at some time. Is that were the Springfield, MO team came from?

St. Louis metro very much includes Illinois, but I think like 75% of the St. Louis population is in Missouri. The major sports teams, the arch, and other attractions are mostly in Missouri. There are some things in Illinois, like clubs, but most the attractions are in Missouri. But Illinois is still a significant portion of our metro.

Do I consider St. Louis a second Illinois city? No. Illinois is important to St. Louis, but St. Louis is in Missouri for the most part. And the Illinois side seems to be more rural and small cities. St. Louis metro is partially in Illinois, but not enough, in my opinion, to consider St. Louis an Illinois city.