Champaign vs. Urbana? (Chicago, Springfield, Lincoln: section 8, crime rate, buying a house)
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Hi everyone, my husband and I are moving to Champaign/Urbana from TN next year so he can go to school. We're originally from Springfield so we know what to expect weather and culture-wise. We were just wondering if there's a big difference between living in the two towns. We'll be buying a house so we're mostly wondering if the taxes are really different.
Also, are there any good neighborhoods withing biking distance of the campus, say under three miles?
Hi everyone, my husband and I are moving to Champaign/Urbana from TN next year so he can go to school. We're originally from Springfield so we know what to expect weather and culture-wise. We were just wondering if there's a big difference between living in the two towns. We'll be buying a house so we're mostly wondering if the taxes are really different.
Also, are there any good neighborhoods withing biking distance of the campus, say under three miles?
Urbana has a historically well-deserved reputation of being more liberal than Champaign. Urbana clearly has a more liberal city council, although the Champaign city council has taken a sharp turn to the left in recent years. With liberals dominating the city councils of course comes higher taxes and more regulations on almost every aspect of our lives. The liberal kookiness is especially pronounced on the Urbana city council, which involves itself in nuclear disarmament, global warming, banning guns, global racial equality, and so forth. However, as mentioned the liberals have made gains on the Champaign city council in recent years, so taxes, fees, and regulations are sharply increasing in Champaign as well.
As a homeowner your taxes and regulations will be lower in Champaign -- not hugely lower, but definitely lower. However, if the current political trends in Champaign continue, then in a few more years the taxes and regulations in Champaign will be just as high as they are in Urbana. The Champaign economy is vastly larger than the Urbana economy. Historically, Champaign was a free-market friendly city, and the area was able to flourish as a regional shopping mecca, and Champaign is still *the* major shopping destination throughout east-central Illinois.
There's a lot of crime in both cities. Although much of it is confined to obvious areas that you will quickly become familiar with, a notable amount of violent crime does spill out of these areas into the campus and nice areas of the cities. This problem especially hit Urbana, which actively recruited public housing dwellers in Chicago to come live in new public housing developments in Urbana, and of course the violent crime rate skyrocketed. Champaign did this too, although to less of an extent. The Urbana police force is handcuffed by the mayor and city council, and tends to be far less proactive in fighting violent crime. The Champaign police force is a bit better in this regard (the Champaign mayor is a retired cop), and they sometimes make sweeps through the violence-prone neighborhoods, which is something you'll never see in Urbana.
Having said this stuff, which I realize must sound very negative, I also want to say this can be a nice place to live. The community is sort of my adopted hometown and I like it here. For an academic person, this community really has everything you need -- a highly educated citizenry, great shopping, excellent libraries, very good health care, lots of athletic and cultural events, affordability, pretty good restaurants, outstanding public transportation, decent night life, and so forth.
Also, there are good areas to live within bike-ride distance of campus. Recently both cities have been re-striping some of the streets to improve the bike path network. If you want to ride your bike to campus, you might want to partially base your housing decision as a function of what part of campus your husband will be at. If you want to tell me which college (or better yet which department) your husband will be bicycling to, I might be able to make suggestions on specific neighborhoods or areas you may want to consider (feel free to direct message me if you prefer not to post this information). Like most everywhere else in the country, our housing market is soft and now is a good time to buy around here; it's a very affordable community. Welcome to the University of Illinois!
Last edited by EyesInTheSky; 03-27-2009 at 12:25 AM..
We were facing a similar situation a couple of years ago and looked at homes in both cities. We ultimately decided on a home in Urbana, but we didn't really have a bias towards one or the other going into the decision. It was more a factor of the home itself. I agree with most of what the previous poster said. I think Urbana has a little more of that small town atmosphere left simply because it is a little smaller and less busy, which I like. If there is something I need that I can only get in Champaign, it is certainly not far away. The towns are so close and small, that they are really quite similar despite what some over-zealous residents of one or the other will tell you.
I don't think crime is much worse here than other cities of similar size. It's much better than a large city (e.g. Chicago, St. Louis, Indy, etc) but a little worse than their suburbs. Also the perception that Urbana is less safe than Champaign is false. If you just check the crime statistics from this website, you can see the crime index is lower in Urbana, although they are comparable. As far as taxes go, Urbana has a slightly higher property tax rate, but if you buy new construction they will rebate the difference for 5 years or something. In the past Urbana had been known for being anti-development but the recent addition of a Meijer store and some other new development has ironically left Urbana with a budget surplus this year while Champaign has had to make major cuts and raise fees.
As far as biking, I think that if your husband is biking to the University of Illinois campus, then the bike ride from Urbana is an easier one than from Champaign. I make this trip every dry day above 55. The ride from the Urbana side is mostly through quiet residential streets, and depending on where you are coming from and where you are going you may only have to cross one street of any significance (Lincoln Avenue). If you come from any decent part of Champaign, you are going to have to cross at least a couple of major roads and then ride through campustown (major undergraduate housing area) where there are lots of pedestrians and cars. This is something I really didn't consider when looking at homes but I'm glad we opted for Urbana just for this reason, as the bike ride is much safer and easier.
Urbana is pretty easy to get around on foot, bike, or bus. I like that we can walk the dog to the farmer's market on the weekend and to her vet appointments. I imagine some parts of Champaign are walkable too, but since it is larger, commercial districts tend to be farther from most residential areas. You will probably want to consider where the nearest bus routes are when looking for a home. Unless your husband is extremely hardcore about biking, he is going to want to take the bus on days where the wind chill is below zero. The bus system is reliable, I use it every day I don't bike.
If you have specific questions about neighborhoods or anything else I can try to help.
I don't think crime is much worse here than other cities of similar size. It's much better than a large city (e.g. Chicago, St. Louis, Indy, etc) but a little worse than their suburbs. Also the perception that Urbana is less safe than Champaign is false. If you just check the crime statistics from this website, you can see the crime index is lower in Urbana, although they are comparable. [Snip]
I didn't mean to overstate the Urbana crime rate relative to the Champaign crime rate. Indeed, the overall crime rate in Urbana last year was slightly lower than the overall rate in Champaign. However, in my view Urbana "feels" like it has more violent crime. Perhaps this is because Champaign has some expansive good neighborhoods that are insulated from the crime problems by virtue of their location. By comparison Urbana is much smaller, and even the good neighborhoods do not feel as insulated from the street criminals. I am fairly certain that violent crime in Urbana is more pervasive than it is in Champaign.
This problem is especially notable in southeast Urbana, which historically was one of the nicest areas of town. Then when all the public housing came in, southeast Urbana turned into a very dangerous area. Now, if you took a poll, I doubt you'd find much more than one resident in ten in southeast Urbana who would tell you it's a safe neighborhood. I have a few friends that lived in southeast Urbana many years, and they're astonished how their neighborhood has been invaded and wrecked over the past 10 to 15 years. It's no longer a place a person, especially an unescorted woman, can venture out after nightfall; many people feel like they're now prisoners in their homes.
You are correct that since Urbana is smaller, the poor and rich live closer together. Perhaps this might lead some to feel less safe than living in an enclave in Champaign. Of course, not everyone can afford to live in an enclave, and besides a few areas, most of Champaign is of mixed class as well. The towns are both so small that they will never be like the bubble-suburbs of larger midwestern cities.
I agree southeast Urbana has its problems (I live here), but I think calling it "very dangerous" is a big overstatement. I've only been here for a couple of years but I think things have been improving. They have implemented better inspections to keep the complexes from becoming slums and police calls have dropped steadily. I have no problem walking my dog at night, although I generally try to avoid certain areas after dark. I don't think there are any parts of either town where I would recommend that "an unescorted woman venture out after nightfall". C-U just isn't that safe. In the bubble-suburb where I grew up, sure. In the big city campus where I went to school, no way. Here, I don't recommend it but very unlikely you will have any problems.
You are correct that since Urbana is smaller, the poor and rich live closer together. Perhaps this might lead some to feel less safe than living in an enclave in Champaign. Of course, not everyone can afford to live in an enclave, and besides a few areas, most of Champaign is of mixed class as well. The towns are both so small that they will never be like the bubble-suburbs of larger midwestern cities.
I agree southeast Urbana has its problems (I live here), but I think calling it "very dangerous" is a big overstatement. I've only been here for a couple of years but I think things have been improving. They have implemented better inspections to keep the complexes from becoming slums and police calls have dropped steadily. I have no problem walking my dog at night, although I generally try to avoid certain areas after dark. I don't think there are any parts of either town where I would recommend that "an unescorted woman venture out after nightfall". C-U just isn't that safe. In the bubble-suburb where I grew up, sure. In the big city campus where I went to school, no way. Here, I don't recommend it but very unlikely you will have any problems.
There are numerous violent crimes on a regular basis in southeast Urbana, especially if you include the nearby section 8 housing that is located along East Washington Avenue (which I do realize is more east Urbana as opposed to southeast Urbana--a distinction really important only to us locals). Although some of this crime is "gangbanger" versus "gangbanger," a lot of it is against common citizens minding their own business. Just this year in southeast Urbana there have been at least a dozen robberies and beatings of people shopping on South Philo Road, as well as several home invasions (and some involved rape). Not to mention the numerous burglaries and other larcenies.
In terms of violent crime rates, I certainly wouldn't call southeast Urbana equivalent to, for example, Altgeld Gardens in Chicago (and I speak as a born and raised Chicago southsider) -- but SE Urbana is a lot more violent than any south Champaign neighborhood. There are areas in Champaign where unescorted women can walk alone at night in relative safety and I see it all the time (for example, in most any subdivision or neighborhood south of Kirby Avenue), but this generally is not as true in Urbana, which is a much more safe haven for criminals.
The C-U community has become almost a perfect breeding ground for violent criminals. It has a highly tolerant local citizenry that is obsessed with expanding "diversity," a fairly good tax base to expand social welfare programs, liberal-dominated city governments that do not want the police to get too pro-active fighting violent crime because it could stigmatize certain racial/ethnic groups (this is especially true in Urbana), a local newspaper that is constantly looking for any hint of the cops stopping blacks more than whites, and reasonable proximity to Chicago, who are glad to encourage their public housing residents to move to C-U.
If you guys are trying to freak me out about moving there, it's working! I'm already pretty agoraphobic. But I do appreciate the honesty and input.
EyeInTheSky, we aren't sure what department he'll be in yet. He has two years in computers under his belt, and he's been in the army for the past five years so his GI bill will pay for four years of school. He hasn't decided if he's going to switch majors, finish his computer degree and then get a second degree, get a Masters, or what. The school told him he can't apply for the 2010 fall semester until the end of this year, but we're 99% sure that this is where we're going.
Champaign-Urbana seems like a nice town to me. I spent most of my time there on campus, but did quite a bit of running off campus.
Usually I'd run in a square down Kirby to Mattis, back up to John St. and then back to campus. I never felt threatened and usually saw kids out playing. I thought the neighborhoods and houses looked nice.
There were some areas I ran through in Urbana further east that would have been uncomfortable if I wasn't running with a large group.
If you guys are trying to freak me out about moving there, it's working! I'm already pretty agoraphobic. But I do appreciate the honesty and input.
EyeInTheSky, we aren't sure what department he'll be in yet. He has two years in computers under his belt, and he's been in the army for the past five years so his GI bill will pay for four years of school. He hasn't decided if he's going to switch majors, finish his computer degree and then get a second degree, get a Masters, or what. The school told him he can't apply for the 2010 fall semester until the end of this year, but we're 99% sure that this is where we're going.
I work for a university research group and am closely affiliated with several researchers in the Computer Science (CS) department. Please be aware the CS department is extremely competitive, both from an admissions standpoint and a classroom/research lab standpoint. Your husband will need to have a stellar academic record to be admitted as a transfer undergrad or as a grad student.
With just a couple of exceptions, most of the CS program areas no longer admit Master's students. Instead, CS graduate students are typically admitted as PhD students and then if they can't pass their qualifier or don't finish their dissertation, they're given a Master's degree as a departing consolation prize. I'd estimate that almost half the admitted PhD students in CS do not finish the degree for one reason or another. Be aware the CS department here is ranked among the best in the world and the competition in every facet of the program is keen and intense, and burn-out frequently occurs.
The good news is if your husband is admitted and does well, he'll have many opportunities open to him (even in this bad economy). Virtually all the CS students I know that are graduating this May have multiple job offers at excellent (and in a couple cases astounding) starting salaries.
And don't worry about an attack of agoraphobia; C-U is very urban. It's not open spaces you have to worry about in this community; it's the 2-legged criminal predators. If you're originally from Springfield, you'll find violent crime here in C-U follows a very similar pattern. I definitely wouldn't let the crime rate deter you from the world class educational opportunities at UIUC!
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