When are things going to turn around for Southern Illinois? (Chicago: apartments, condos)

[bhj867]

Honestly, when are things going to turn around for us. Im talking about us here south of the Metro East. We are all hurting so bad. Economically there are NO jobs, I mean NONE. The only thing we have going for us is SIU and it's not helping those of us who aren't in school. No Industry, no tourism. Will Governor Quinn fix Blagos mess? Are there any attempts to help preserve any of the historical buildings and dilapidation old downtowns in this region?

Chicago and the rest of the state has left us to die, and it's sad.

[Drover]

Your problems aren't Chicago's doings, nor are they necessarily Chicago's problems to solve. Your problems stem from the economic reality that agriculture continues to create higher outputs with less manpower. It probably doesn't help that manufacturing employment has also been in secular decline for decades. Fact is there is simply less and less need for populations in rural agricultural areas and so the country's population is shifting toward greater concentration in urbanized areas. This has been going on for nearly a century, so y'all are going to have to get creative about drawing people and jobs to your area, or accept that "creative destruction" is going to leave some ghost towns in its wake.

[bhj867]

So creative destruction is taking out the entire state south of I80 in it's wake? That makes absolutely no sense. There is basically no growth besides suburban sprawl in this direction. Even Indiana and Missouri have managed to keep their midsized cities in stagnant growth, and there is farmland All up and down those regions with larger cities involved as well. Everything in Illinois is visibly dying, meaning losing population outside Chicagoland, including the cities (Peoria, Decatur, Alton, East St. Louis). I'm not so much blaming Chicago as I'm blaming the politicians involved in stifling money and helpful programs to the rest of the state. Here's a good example: Just because Cincinnati is growing doesn't mean Cleveland and Columbus got the shaft.

Last year they wanted to decentralize a branch of IDOT and move it down here to Harrisburg from Springfield. The City of Springfield pitched a continental fit because we were taking jobs from that city and moving them down here to what in their opinion was a "Impoverished area". I'm not so much blaming Springfield, because they are hurting as well, it's just it seems there is a hierarchy of "State government support" involved here that isn't exactly fair.

[Drover]

Wait, I thought we were talking about Illinois south of Metro East. When did the conversation shift to "everything south of I-80"?

[bhj867]

Everything south of i80, everything south of the Metro east. Same difference. The whole system is shutting down. I live south of the metro, so that's why I said that. but technically this is a larger problem on a larger scale. And no this is NOT a national problem, this is a State of Illinois problem.

[Drover]

No, it's not "same difference." There are still metropolitan areas well north of metro east that are doing fine, in some measure because they are drawing in formerly rural populations.

And while rural depopulation is not a national problem, it is a regional problem in the Midwest where the types of goods produced are highly amenable to mechanization and economies of scale. Illinois is hardly alone. See: Iowa, the eastern Dakotas, Kansas, Nebraska, etc.

Rural flight - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

SSRN-The Future of Banking in America - Rural Depopulation: What Does It Mean for the Future Economic Health of Rural Areas and the Community Banks That Support Them? by Jeffrey Walser, John Anderlik

[bhj867]

Name one city not connected Suburban-wise to Chicago that's not suffering. Kankakee, Champaign and anything in Chicagoland doesn't count. It's all suburban. And if you want to get into "Flights", let's talk about the problem of White Flight.

White flight - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A problem that almost EVERY major city in the midwest and northeast has suffered since the 1950s, and Chicago has mysteriously not been effected at all. Possibly because of the unfair distribution of funds and support to a centralized location called Chicago? hmmm.

[Drover]

Originally Posted by bhj867

Name one city not connected Suburban-wise to Chicago that's not suffering. Kankakee, Champaign and anything in Chicagoland doesn't count. It's all suburban. And if you want to get into "Flights", let's talk about the problem of White Flight.

White flight - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A problem that almost EVERY major city in the midwest and northeast has suffered since the 1950s, and Chicago has mysteriously not been effected at all. Possibly because of the unfair distribution of funds and support to a centralized location called Chicago? hmmm.

First, we've already had the "unfair distribution of funds" discussion on these boards plenty of times, and it doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

Second, I'm not interested in talking about white flight because it has shag-all to do with the original topic. If you're no longer interested in discussing your own topic, let me know so I can move on.

Third, while many city centers have struggled, others are doing OK and even some of those that are struggling have seen their metropolitan areas grow. Champaign and Kankakee are among them, and you don't get to exclude them just because it's convenient for argument's sake to do so. Other metropolitan areas that have seen growth are Springfield, B-N, Peoria, and despite its reputation, even Rockford proper's population is growing, never mind its metro area.

Finally, if you think Chicago "has mysteriously not been effected at all," I frankly don't know what else to say except that you're absolutely clueless. The city's population has fallen by nearly a million since 1950, the manufacturing sector has been hit hard, countless neighborhoods fell victim to wholesale disinvestment and countless billions of personal wealth was destroyed in the process, and as a result approximately half this city is uninhabitable by anyone with the basic means and common sense to live elsewhere. And yet you're going to sit here and tell me that this city "has mysteriously not been effected at all?" Where do you come up with this?

The bottom line is rural depopulation is not a new phenomenon, nor is it a local-only phenomenon, nor does it appear the trend is going to end anytime soon, nor is there anything short of economic reordering via command-and-control methods that Illinois or any other government body can do about it.

[chirack]

Originally Posted by bhj867

Name one city not connected Suburban-wise to Chicago that's not suffering. Kankakee, Champaign and anything in Chicagoland doesn't count. It's all suburban. And if you want to get into "Flights", let's talk about the problem of White Flight.

White flight - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A problem that almost EVERY major city in the midwest and northeast has suffered since the 1950s, and Chicago has mysteriously not been effected at all. Possibly because of the unfair distribution of funds and support to a centralized location called Chicago? hmmm.

Ah, I live in Chicago and parts of our economy really suck. Sure downtown in great and growing but Chicago is far larger than downtown. There are literally miles of ghettos in town. The downtown area of Chicago is maybe about five miles by five miles. The city itself is 237 square miles.

As for white flight it did occur here but unlike many of our Midwest counterparts (say Detroit) Chicago has always had a diversified economy. Meaning that at one time this town had steel, the stockyards, rail roads, tourism, and corporate headquarters. A diversified economy softens the blows when companies leave. Also white flight out of the city did not mean that all the money left the city. Many of the white who lived out of the city worked in the city.

Also downtown Chicago is not comparable to the downtown of some small town. Small town downtowns are supported by the people who live there. You go to those downtowns to shop or see a movie. I mean shockingly people who live nearby actually drive to these places.

Downtown Chicago is a place for workers, tourists, and high income earners more than it is a place for the people of Chicago. If you live in town, it is usually cheaper and more conveint to go shopping or see a movie elsewhere.

As for down state, there is little the state can do about depopulation or loss of jobs. I mean even mighty Chicago has loss the stockyards and what is left of the steal industry is nothing like it once was. There used to be an area called printers row where books were printed not it is all apartments and condos the printing jobs long gone. Brach’s candy left for Mexico. Cherman shoes are now no longer made here. Scwhin bicycles long gone.

The population of Chicago is nothing like it once was and will never be as big as it was in the 50ies. Being able to manage and cope with decline is what sets apart cities that survive from those that die.

As for rural areas there is little hope because it simply does not take as many people to today to grow crops. That is why the land is turning to burbs. It also does not take as many people today to manufacture goods. The best that can be done is to attract some small scale cottage industries. Grow something trendy like organic stuff and realize that tomorrow can not be the same as today.

[chirack]

Originally Posted by bhj867

Honestly, when are things going to turn around for us. Im talking about us here south of the Metro East. We are all hurting so bad. Economically there are NO jobs, I mean NONE. The only thing we have going for us is SIU and it's not helping those of us who aren't in school. No Industry, no tourism. Will Governor Quinn fix Blagos mess? Are there any attempts to help preserve any of the historical buildings and dilapidation old downtowns in this region?

Chicago and the rest of the state has left us to die, and it's sad.

Another tip I can give an area is think long and hard about preserving old buildings. Don’t get me wrong they do look beautiful but they can be ill suited for the future or even the present and can retard economic development.

A good example might be downtown Chicago. At one time the area had six railroad terminals. Now we are down to just union station. The rest were torn down or heavily modified (i.e. the old station is 80-95% gone) so that they are commuter rail road stations instead. If they were not modified then Metra would be paying extra for things it did not need (like large seating and baggage areas). Or they would not have been turned into developments (better some property tax than an empty building).

I hate to say it but instead of empty buildings downtown why not turn some of them into parks? Or turn them into smaller buildings that say a mom and pop business could afford? How about a small industrial park?

As for tourism beware that trap. It can be a driver of jobs, but you need to be in an area well served by transportation and you need to do something unique and it helps to have a large population center nearby. A lot of southern IL does not fit that bill.