Does Chicagoland's huge population kill democracy for downstate IL? (Worth: house, university)

[edsg25]

I'm not looking for the "bad guy" in the question I'm going to pose here. It is not about evil, but about raw numbers, how they are distributed, and the implications of the distribution.

So I ask the following not in an effort to point a finger at anyone:

Is the population of the state of Illinois, more so perhaps than any state in the union, so tipped in the direction of Chicago and its suburbs to make downstate Illinois's true voice in state politics and government negligible at best.

For the record, I've lived in Chicagoland my whole life...born in the city but spent most of my life in the suburbs. So I'm not part of the injurred party here.

Illinois is less about north, central, and south and a lot more about Chicago, suburban Chicago, and downstate Illinois. And the first two where the bulk of the state's population is located are linked together in an economic unit that makes them not only neighbors, but having the same concerns.

They are part of a major global and high powered metropolitan area that not only drowns out downstate's political power through sheer numbers but is such a region that is so out reaching that it doesn't really relate to the more rural and smaller city concerns of that different world that is downstate Illinois.

It's almost like Chicago adds insult (too big and too national an global in reach to even know that downstate IL exists) to injury (the population disparity that makes Chicago call the shots in a very blue state where the vast majority of the land is quite red indeed).

I'm not suggesting the impossible or even to see it as the desirable: Chicago splitting away from Illinois into its own Chicagoland state, perhaps with the inclusion of the Chicagoland portions of IN and WI.

What I am asking is this:

• would you agree with me that downstate Illinois is poorly served by the unusual state demographics, something never envisioned when the state came into existence and Chicago was literally looked at as a backwater in state whose powers were more related to the shores of the Ohio River than to Lake Michigan?

• Does Chicagoland need to become more aware and more sensitive to the concerns and the culture of downstate IL (I would venture to guess Chicagolanders know more about Wisconsin than about Downstate IL). Conversely, do downstaters need to feel more comfortable with Chicago, often seen as an alien presence in the state?

• and if you agree, what can and should we do about it?

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and let me here throw in one suggestion (by no means one of the better ones...just one that comes to mind as a example):

UIUC is the greatest site for bringing downstaters and Chicago area college kids together in a state unifying setting (although the university is dominated by its Chicago area enrollment).

Wouldn't it make sense to encourage more downstate kids to attend UIC, increasing their understanding of Chicago and building a better relationship between the huge metro area and the rest of the state? Seems UIC offers downstate kids something very few state's could offer: a chance to go to college in a global city with instate tuition.

[jfre81]

It's a perfect example of why the whole "red state/blue state" dichotomy is useless.

[Maintainschaos]

The entire rest of the state isn't red, and this situation isn't unique to IL. There are many other states (Georgia, New York, Washington, Michigan, etc.) where the same situation exists. In any event, it would be nice if Chicagoland were more aware of other parts of the state, but if Chicago existed anywhere else in the state, it would be the same old song and dance. Personally, I think IL is lucky to have Chicago, and Chicago is lucky to have the rest of IL.

[edsg25]

believe it or not, the whole red and blue issue wasn't really a major concern for me. I'm not talking Dem or Rep. Even liberal or conservative.

My issue is this: downstate Illinois simply by its different nature from Chicagoland has little power to influence how its state government carries out. This is not related to philosophical political issues. Internal politics in Illinois (like most states) is not really related to red/blue issues which tend to be national in nature.The issue is bare bones practicality, basic economic, social, and other issues that differ from region to region. Democracy is supposed to serve its people.

I only mentioned blue and red to show how Illinois is seen as strongly blue due to the power of metropolitan Chicago. It has no bearing on what transpires in our state legislature or on the actions of our governor.

I'm talking about pure representation and I think, due to the state' population, downstate gets drowned out. As noted I'm a Chicago/suburban Chicago guy, so if I'm wrong and downstaers tell me their needs are met by the state and their voices are an effective part of the policies that affect their lives, I'll admit my mistake and consider this a closed topic.

[Maintainschaos]

Originally Posted by edsg25

Democracy is supposed to serve its people.

Of which 9 out of 13 million live in Chicagoland, so I'd say it's working, no? I mean, if that's where the majority of the population lives, then that's where the most people are going to be served or where the most people are going to be represented. I don't think downstate is completely ignored; it may be overshadowed, but that's a consequence of having fewer people...

[Irishtom29]

The people downstate are pretty good at looking out for themselves.

Note that culturally and politically there are two downstates; the one above the Shelbyville Moraine and the one below it.

[jfre81]

Sorry, but that's just the way it works. Just like how California, Texas and New York have more seats in the U.S. House of Representatives than Vermont, Delaware and Alaska. Most of the population in Illinois lives in and around Chicago, just like most of New York's population lives in and around NYC. Even here in Texas, although it's split among several large metropolitan areas, most of the population lives in them. Roughly half live in the Houston or Dallas-Fort Worth metros, and that's not even counting those in other sizable cities like San Antonio (>1M people), Austin or El Paso.

Chalk it up to a side effect of urbanization.

[edsg25]

Originally Posted by Maintainschaos

Of which 9 out of 13 million live in Chicagoland, so I'd say it's working, no? I mean, if that's where the majority of the population lives, then that's where the most people are going to be served or where the most people are going to be represented. I don't think downstate is completely ignored; it may be overshadowed, but that's a consequence of having fewer people...

main, i'm all for majority rule. my point is more based on the idea that when one region so dominates a state the way Chicago does, the voice of those outside the region aren't really represented at all.

I'm not naive. I don't believe there is a chance that our states would ever be redrawn. And I also believe that any democratic system, even when it tries its hardest, will have inequalities.

It's just in the case of Illinois, the inequality is far more glaring than most as downstate literally has no voice in what happens in the state. If Illinois were a nation and not a state, it would not last: downstate...or is it downnation...would pull out.

I'm not talking about Chicagoland losing power. In fact, if downstate were to becomes its own state, Chicagoland wouldn't lose a thing.

Look at it this way: much of Iowa is like downstate IL but it has a real voice on its concerns with its state government. much of Indiana is also like downstate IL, even more so than Iowa, but it, too, has a strong voice in state politics since Indy does not control its state like Chicago does its.

I'm not trying to belabor a point here. I would be interested in knowing if downstaters themselves feel their needs are poorly addressed due to Illinois demographics. Or maybe they are not. That's possible, too.

I'm hoping some people from downstate who know would respond....even if it is to tell me I'm way off base and their representation creates no problems.

[edsg25]

Originally Posted by jfre81

Sorry, but that's just the way it works. Just like how California, Texas and New York have more seats in the U.S. House of Representatives than Vermont, Delaware and Alaska.

jfre, i don't think you get my point. i'm in full agreement with you on the above and see no problem with it. Vermont is not hurt by California in the House of Representatives one bit because California is a large, diverse state and its congressmen represent districts that have virtually nothing in common. I would venture to say that there are rural districts in northern California in the Sierra or its foothills that have more in common with Vermont than they do with LA, or San Francisco, or the central valley.

That's not the case in Illinois. Here in Illinois, we have a massive, totally dominating metro area where both city and suburbs have enough common needs that they virtually eliminate the democratic voice of those downstate to have government work for them.

I'm going no where on this discussion because it seems folks are focusing on "well, that's the way it is". They certainly aren't looking at the structure of our state which, through population patterns over the last half century, has created something far less functional than just an urban advantage over rural, that being one clearly defined megaregion virtually having the state to itself.

I'm a Democrat. I have never been so scared by the Republican Party as I am today. But I am also a democrat, small "d" and I believe in people having a voice. And, in essence, the people in downstate Illinois have no voice in choosing their president. Those areas are largely Republican and their votes will never be part of the decision making of who the next president will be. They have been marginized.

And that marginization takes place in our state government, too.

I'm happy to see everybody's input here, but those of us who are not downstaters cannot rationalize and dismiss what may be real concerns for them. that's why I'm hoping to hear from some.

[Avengerfire]

Oh god not again.