U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Illinois
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 1.5 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Jump to a detailed profile or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Business Search - 14 Million verified businesses
Search for:  near: 
 
 
Old 05-20-2010, 09:17 PM
 
Location: AZ
19,677 posts, read 51,265,061 times
Reputation: 8958

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by rxpwas View Post
I can't get over how flat and treeless Illinois is, especially being east of Mississippi and all. Indiana to east, Kentucky to south, the Great Lakes area to north, and even Missouri Ozarks to west seem to be more heavily wooded in general than Illinois. At any rate, I don't know if it is part of traditional Kansas, Nebraska, Great Plains and prairies Tornado Alley, but flat as it is and treeless in many areas of state I can believe it. (I saw one once on Illinois/Indiana line between Danville, Ill., and Crawfordsville, In.
Tornadoes strike anywhere, no matter if its flat and treeless or not. The only reason the Plains States get a lot of tornadoes is simply where they lie within the country, theyre very susceptible to varying masses of air that spawn tornadoes.
Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-20-2010, 10:30 PM
 
Location: Not where you ever lived
10,856 posts, read 15,218,880 times
Reputation: 5385
If a tree falls in a forest does't anyone hear it? The answer is moot; it makes no difference - neither does the density. county size or damaga it does if no one sees it - but it does make a difference if a mile wide tornado is on the ground long enough to cut the heart heart out of a county that grows corn. No one may see it or hear it, and no building is destroyed. But the crop damage will tell the story. The average Illinois farm is 1000-1200 acres - which is roughly 2000 2400 feet per side. It's a fer peice to walk or work. or see from cornerr to corner. If someone was home, no dought someone woud see a F3. but could they pinpoint whose crops it hit from a great distance. No. It still goes back to nature.

The ambient air temp and atmospheic conditions must be perfect to spawn a tornado. I cannot recall that a twister ever formed in a city, but here is a question?.

There are two cities of approximate population and county size. One is 90 miles due north of the other They are separated by high hills and heavily forested areas. One town is surrounded by corn fields and small lakes. The other is ringed by hills and heavy ferestation; it fronts a mile-wide wide river. One is intersected with two Interstate routes and several US and state routes. The other is intersected by one.Interstate route. One town and county has been heavily damaged by tormadoc activity while the other is not.

Why?
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-21-2010, 07:34 AM
 
Location: 46201
6,861 posts, read 8,011,596 times
Reputation: 3979
Quote:
Originally Posted by SJaye View Post
Then you explain why the map shows obviously higher levels of tornadic activity in populated areas. Fact is that the fujita scale categories tornadoes based on damage, not how big it physically appears. This means that it is quite difficult to categorize a tornado as F4, F5 when there are not building for it to hit in rural areas. There are some modern techniques to do so, but as recently as twenty years ago they were not there- so even if a storm was seen in rural Nebraska it was possible that it never hit a structure during the duration that it reached the F3, F4, F5 category.

Just look at the map- LOOK AT IT! Are you saying you honestly believe each and every localized box of higher tornado frequency actually represents an area where the tornadic risk is higher than the areas surrounding it? So, significant tornadoes are about twice as likely to occur in Saint Louis as they are just 60 miles to the Northwest? Same with Wichita, KS? Raleigh, NC, Albany, NY, and Boston, MA exist in a bubble of tornadic activity surrounded by areas where they simply don't happen!?!
It would appear we are not talking about the same thing. Pesky thing, isn't it?

Carry on sir and/or mam, carry on.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-21-2010, 09:01 AM
 
Location: Denver, CO
816 posts, read 1,262,127 times
Reputation: 319
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toxic Toast View Post
It would appear we are not talking about the same thing. Pesky thing, isn't it?

Carry on sir and/or mam, carry on.
I guess this is one the reasons person to person interactions over the internet are no true substitute for interactions in person, and online communities will never truly replace actual communities.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-21-2010, 09:13 AM
 
Location: Denver, CO
816 posts, read 1,262,127 times
Reputation: 319
Quote:
Originally Posted by linicx View Post
If a tree falls in a forest does't anyone hear it? The answer is moot; it makes no difference - neither does the density. county size or damaga it does if no one sees it - but it does make a difference if a mile wide tornado is on the ground long enough to cut the heart heart out of a county that grows corn. No one may see it or hear it, and no building is destroyed. But the crop damage will tell the story. The average Illinois farm is 1000-1200 acres - which is roughly 2000 2400 feet per side. It's a fer peice to walk or work. or see from cornerr to corner. If someone was home, no dought someone woud see a F3. but could they pinpoint whose crops it hit from a great distance. No. It still goes back to nature.
With the county size stuff I was just saying that a larger county is more likely to have more reports of tornadoes simply because it is larger and there is more area for which tornadoes to exist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by linicx View Post
There are two cities of approximate population and county size. One is 90 miles due north of the other They are separated by high hills and heavily forested areas. One town is surrounded by corn fields and small lakes. The other is ringed by hills and heavy ferestation; it fronts a mile-wide wide river. One is intersected with two Interstate routes and several US and state routes. The other is intersected by one.Interstate route. One town and county has been heavily damaged by tormadoc activity while the other is not.

Why?
There has been a lot of recent research into what effects corn may have on tornado development. Specifically, corn leads to a lot of the evapo-transpiration, which leads to higher levels of moisture, and the moisture profile has a profound effect on tornadic development. Similarly, you could say the forest, and land-use in general could have an effect on the likelihood of a tornado.

Unfortunately, when it comes to damaging tornadoes, and whether or not one hits your house/neighborhood/town, there is an element of luck involved. Tornadoes form, as I believe you have mentioned, when the temperature, moisture, wind profiles all come together in a certain formation. Usually this is forced by some kind of a boundary, cold front, dry line, warm front, outflow from a storm, etc. The atmosphere can bring these conditions together anywhere, but there are some places that are geographically more likely than others for various reasons. It is quite common that the areas experiencing heavy damage from tornadoes just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time compared with neighboring towns/counties- i.e. where the atmosphere ended up producing those optimal conditions.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-21-2010, 05:22 PM
 
Location: Not where you ever lived
10,856 posts, read 15,218,880 times
Reputation: 5385
It all goes back to location and the power generated by any tornado. Twisters form in Illinois cornfields. Twisters don't cllimb cliffs, pass through forests or jumo mile wide rivers, but mainly stay on relatively flat, ground with a minimum of.buildings, although a twister has been known to destroy small towns like Peirce City, MO. On the other hand if a city is in a perfect location and in the path of rotation it can be hit twice only minutes apart. It happened in Springfield not so long ago.

The straignt line winds that often accompany twisters can be just as devistating; I've been in a couple of those situations. I swore there was a train on the tracks near my houise. It wasn't.



Quote:
Originally Posted by SJaye View Post
With the county size stuff I was just saying that a larger county is more likely to have more reports of tornadoes simply because it is larger and there is more area for which tornadoes to exist.



There has been a lot of recent research into what effects corn may have on tornado development. Specifically, corn leads to a lot of the evapo-transpiration, which leads to higher levels of moisture, and the moisture profile has a profound effect on tornadic development. Similarly, you could say the forest, and land-use in general could have an effect on the likelihood of a tornado.

Unfortunately, when it comes to damaging tornadoes, and whether or not one hits your house/neighborhood/town, there is an element of luck involved. Tornadoes form, as I believe you have mentioned, when the temperature, moisture, wind profiles all come together in a certain formation. Usually this is forced by some kind of a boundary, cold front, dry line, warm front, outflow from a storm, etc. The atmosphere can bring these conditions together anywhere, but there are some places that are geographically more likely than others for various reasons. It is quite common that the areas experiencing heavy damage from tornadoes just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time compared with neighboring towns/counties- i.e. where the atmosphere ended up producing those optimal conditions.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-24-2010, 09:17 PM
 
Location: Middle America
18,242 posts, read 15,702,316 times
Reputation: 21376
I'm an Illinois transplant who lives in Tornado Alley now (Western Missouri, Kansas border), and have seen less tornado action in the time I've lived here than I experienced in north central Illinois, actually.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-24-2010, 10:05 PM
 
Location: AZ
19,677 posts, read 51,265,061 times
Reputation: 8958
Quote:
Originally Posted by TabulaRasa View Post
I'm an Illinois transplant who lives in Tornado Alley now (Western Missouri, Kansas border), and have seen less tornado action in the time I've lived here than I experienced in north central Illinois, actually.
Youre lucky then. Wait a few years.

Ive been in MO (Joplin area) a few times, each time I was there we were under tornado watches. There is far more tornadic activity in that region of the country than in north central Illinois.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-25-2010, 04:15 PM
 
Location: Not where you ever lived
10,856 posts, read 15,218,880 times
Reputation: 5385
I lived in the SW MO area for 25 years. I was 0n 60 highway when the tornado that sttuck south Springfield blew through. Missed the one that stuck Rangeline in Joplin by 30 mimites. Was not in Kansas when Pittsburg was struck, was out of state when Pierce City was leveled, and was on the opposite end of the state when the F-5 hit OKC, and when Tulsa was struck two different times. I was also on the otherend of he state when OKC was bombed, and I was in Peoria in 1965 in a builing on the corner of Western and Starr watching straight line winds roll doen Western to the river, and missed two in Canton. I've I've seen funnels spawm in cornfields and I 've seen soem horrific damaaging wind storms without tornadic activiity.

A tornado is a tornado. I think the storms in the SW tend to achieve greater intensity due to favorable conditions and location.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-25-2010, 08:17 PM
 
Location: Palatine, IL
11 posts, read 14,819 times
Reputation: 12
You're safe in cook county. Close to the city, less chance. Buildings stop tornadoes. Basically Chicago is the safest city in the world. No tornadoes, no hurricanes, no tidal waves, its harder for terrorists to reach us, and no earthquakes.

Great safe city, except for the criminals.
Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


 
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Options
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2011 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $84,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Illinois
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2014, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 - Top