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I think the pressure to have kids is due to there not being a lot else for adults in Indiana to do.
They should be moving to Indy that has a larger job market or out of state then. The unfortunate economic reality is that many smaller Indiana towns and cities based on a few employers are not faring too well. That might mean moving for a number of people.
Couldn't disagree more. Furthermore, there's a lot worse out there.
I've run across plenty of childless people in their 30s, and I don't know anyone who thinks less of them for it. To the extent that the pressure to get married and have kids exists more in rural areas, I don't see how rural Indiana is different from any other state's rural area.
I know rural Indiana is quite a bit more socially conservative than rural areas of other states, though. That probably has a somewhat of a cultural influence on marriage and kids at a younger age.
Of my nineteen years alive, twelve have been spent in Indiana. I was born in Indianapolis and lived in Boone County until I was six, when I moved to Maryland. I came back when I was twelve (NWI) and lived here ever since. I'm in college now, but NWI is still my home.
I wouldn't necessarily say I don't like living in Indiana; rather, I would say that Indiana should offer more for youth/young adults to do. I haven't really lived anywhere else during this age so perhaps this isn't the best argument, but Indiana is sorely lacking when it comes to attracting youth and young talent. It's one of those states suffering from the "brain drain" phenomenon. Why are most younger people leaving? There's no compelling reason to stay. This might not be as true in the Indy area, but for the rest of the state there's not much incentive.
Indiana as a whole is very family-oriented, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. I'm just not at the age when I'm ready to settle down and have kids, so I probably won't stay in Indiana after I graduate. Would I move back when I have kids? Possibly.
NWI is a prime example of this. It's a suburban extension of Chicago mixed with the suburbs of the once mighty Gary. It's growing slowly but steadily. Most of the growth is for the Chicago suburbs, with families from the south suburbs pouring over. Most businesses, consequentially, are family oriented. There aren't many places for the younger crowd to hang out and meet new people, very limited nightlife, etc.
Public transportation is also lacking (in essentially the entire state). We're too car oriented. This goes back to the American suburban family life much of Indiana has adopted. It's not a bad place for families and the like, and definitely a great place to raise a family. But it needs to offer more to keep Hoosiers in the state after they're able to leave home.
I wouldn't necessarily say I don't like living in Indiana; rather, I would say that Indiana should offer more for youth/young adults to do. I haven't really lived anywhere else during this age so perhaps this isn't the best argument, but Indiana is sorely lacking when it comes to attracting youth and young talent. It's one of those states suffering from the "brain drain" phenomenon. Why are most younger people leaving? There's no compelling reason to stay. This might not be as true in the Indy area, but for the rest of the state there's not much incentive.
The one thing I noticed, all these "offers" that you speak of costs money. Yea, it is nicer in Denver (when compared to Indy) for outdoor activity, however there is a price for all of that. Yea, I know people from back in the day that moved to California and Chicago. Many don't have any meaningful savings, though they might make a decent wage. It is just very pricey for all those offers. Given how the economy is changing things, I think price is going to start being a big factor and we could see a change in where younger folks want to move too. What good is living in San Francisco, Denver, or Chicago if you can't afford to do all those things you moved out there to do? Even if you move to states where the offers are government funded (water parks, outdoor recreation, etc.), you are just going to pay for it in taxes.
I'm sure plenty of those who fled to greener pastures for "things" and "offers" racked up credit card debt like none other. So they may end up moving back to family friendly Indiana, but they might have so much debt between college loans and credit cards, who knows if they were even have enough money here to even buy a home.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CHICAGOLAND92
But it needs to offer more to keep Hoosiers in the state after they're able to leave home.
I really would like for someone to really study the brain drain folks. Where did they move to? Why? What is their income to debt load? Were they able to save anything for a rainy day? Indiana will never, ever compare to some places, where folks want to be two hours drive to the mountains. However, I think Indiana's cheaper costs of living can be offset by allowing folks the disposable income to take weekend trips to almost anywhere: Lakes, oceans, and mountains. Some Indiana outdoor groups spokesperson said that many folks she knew, even married couples, just couldn't resist the draw to Denver as they left Indy. Denver was a similar sized area, and the desire to be much closer to more outdoor options was just too big of a draw.
It would be interesting to track the brain drain in this new economy.
Public transportation is also lacking (in essentially the entire state). We're too car oriented. This goes back to the American suburban family life much of Indiana has adopted. It's not a bad place for families and the like, and definitely a great place to raise a family. But it needs to offer more to keep Hoosiers in the state after they're able to leave home.
Yep. The lack of good public transportation is a huge negative in my mind.
I know rural Indiana is quite a bit more socially conservative than rural areas of other states, though.
Bull. If you truly believe that, you need to get out more. It may be more socially conservative than some rural areas of New England, the Upper Midwest, and perhaps the Inland Empire, but it is no more socially conservative than other areas of the Midwest, and it is arguably less conservative than the South and much of the West. Example - Look at all of the states that codified anti-gay marriage laws into their state constitutions. Indiana is not one of them (although I fear a Gov. Pence would push hard for one).
They should be moving to Indy that has a larger job market or out of state then. The unfortunate economic reality is that many smaller Indiana towns and cities based on a few employers are not faring too well. That might mean moving for a number of people.
Yeah, this seems to be the case in many states. People leave small towns for bigger cities. That's why so many small towns across the country have stayed small for 200 years. It's not entirely Indiana's fault that major urban centers were founded just outside its borders.
As for the brain drain issue, I would also like to see a study about where these people are moving. I have a feeling that the number of people who leave 'Indiana proper' is much higher than that of people who leave the general Indiana region for places within 1 to 20 miles of the state such as Louisville, Cincy, and Chicago.
Those links are very poignant and relevant to what I have seen in many areas of southern Indiana. To give one easy example of the complete lack of things to do in a smaller city I will mention Jeffersonville- right near Louisville, KY. The city is over 30,000 in population yet doesn't have one movie theatre complex of any size, unless I am missing one in the Downtown area. A cinema is one amenity is generally appealing to all age ranges, but particularly those that are younger. One MAJOR KEY that is mentioned in the first article is that of low wages in Indiana. This is DEFINITELY TRUE in southern Indiana where average wages are probably even lower than the state averages. A low cost of living doesn't matter very much if wages are so very low. The percentage of younger people enrolling in college is definitely on the upswing which is a good sign here. However, they will likely move to a larger metro for a diverse array of employment fields after graduation. I did read an article regarding big gains in factory orders with manufacturing employment increasing recently. This might bode as a sign for some improvement in manufacturing oriented towns in IN, but only time will tell.
The one thing I noticed, all these "offers" that you speak of costs money. Yea, it is nicer in Denver (when compared to Indy) for outdoor activity, however there is a price for all of that. Yea, I know people from back in the day that moved to California and Chicago. Many don't have any meaningful savings, though they might make a decent wage. It is just very pricey for all those offers. Given how the economy is changing things, I think price is going to start being a big factor and we could see a change in where younger folks want to move too. What good is living in San Francisco, Denver, or Chicago if you can't afford to do all those things you moved out there to do? Even if you move to states where the offers are government funded (water parks, outdoor recreation, etc.), you are just going to pay for it in taxes.
I'm sure plenty of those who fled to greener pastures for "things" and "offers" racked up credit card debt like none other. So they may end up moving back to family friendly Indiana, but they might have so much debt between college loans and credit cards, who knows if they were even have enough money here to even buy a home.
It's funny you mention this, because I was going to say "you get what you pay for" in my last post. Indiana is definitely cheaper than Illinois and a lot of other states, but Indiana does not offer as many amenities. Furthermore, while Indiana may be cheaper, wages also aren't as high as they would be in those states. So it balances out.
Price has always been a factor for generations. It only seemed less important during the past years due to easy loans. It may come back to play a bigger role, but people are ultimately going to want to be near things they find desirable, regardless of price. For example, Hammond is cheaper than Munster, but many people would be willing to pay more to live in Munster due to the better schools and quality of life.
As a last point, EVERYTHING costs money, regardless of the state. This goes back to the "you get what you pay for" idea. In the end, it all boils down to if the extra costs are worth it to the individual.
Quote:
Originally Posted by indy_317
I really would like for someone to really study the brain drain folks. Where did they move to? Why? What is their income to debt load? Were they able to save anything for a rainy day? Indiana will never, ever compare to some places, where folks want to be two hours drive to the mountains. However, I think Indiana's cheaper costs of living can be offset by allowing folks the disposable income to take weekend trips to almost anywhere: Lakes, oceans, and mountains. Some Indiana outdoor groups spokesperson said that many folks she knew, even married couples, just couldn't resist the draw to Denver as they left Indy. Denver was a similar sized area, and the desire to be much closer to more outdoor options was just too big of a draw.
It would be interesting to track the brain drain in this new economy.
I find it interesting as well. I just graduated, so my class is now in college, but it will be interesting to see where everyone moves to. I'm betting that the majority will move around the Chicago area.
I kind of answered your questions above. I'm sure you already know this, but Indiana isn't a debt-free state. There are many here that are burdened by debt as well (especially due to buying houses during the housing boom). And like the Denver family you described, some people would rather be near the excitement than just visit.
Indiana has a lot of potential. We just have to figure out how to draw people to our state. We know there's more to it than small manufacturing cities, sports, and corn. Once Indiana finds something to keep Hoosiers and attract new ones (besides low costs, which could possibly turn Indiana into a state for retirees), the brain drain trend will begin to reverse.
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Indiana is definitely cheaper than Illinois and a lot of other states, but Indiana does not offer as many amenities. Furthermore, while Indiana may be cheaper, wages also aren't as high as they would be in those states. So it balances out.
