The State House Is Insane (Indianapolis, English: credit, how much, living in)

[grmasterb]

Originally Posted by Zel Ya

You stated in a previous post that Indianapolis does not really have a gay area. I find that difficult to comphrehend. That kind of indicates how welcoming the city is to the GLBT community.

Why is it important for there to be an almost-exclusively gay area? How is that indicative of acceptance? When cities are segregated by race, it's often considered to be evidence of racial hostility.

Originally Posted by Zel Ya

What kind of population growth is Indiana experiencing? Indianapolis may be growing, but other parts of the state are not seeing tremendous growth. .

So? Same can be said for many states. Small manufacturing-based cities and rural areas are depopulating all over.

Originally Posted by Zel Ya

I guess I've been through Indianapolis around 20 times, but only driving through to other destinations. It's a big city. Most cities of its size should have a least an older area of town that would have a hint of a gay presence.

There is a gay presence in Indy. I told you where to find them.

[grmasterb]

Originally Posted by gaduchman

Sez you - maybe sanity will come back - finally ending all those checkoffs, earmarks and entitlements! Maybe the State doesn't need you either - go to some other LIB state.

I think Indiana would be best served by having a healthy balance of liberalism and conservatism.

[Zel Ya]

Originally Posted by grmasterb

I don't believe Indy has a "gay area," so to speak, although Mass Ave. may be about as close as you get in Indy. But mostly gays are integrated throughout the city. You can see rainbow flags in Old Northside, Broad Ripple and the various neighborhoods around Mass Ave. Is it a gay magnet? I wouldn't think so, but neither is it hostile towards gays.

Atlanta does appear to have a notable gay population, but what about the rest of Georgia? You seem eager to see Indianapolis and Indiana as one and the same. I don't see how you can say that anti-gay rhetoric in Indiana has a "greater punch" when Georgia's constitution bans gay marriage and civil unions. As of now, Indiana's does not.

And speaking of Georgia's gay marriage ban, did that intolerance force gays out of Atlanta? Did Fortune 500 companies like Coca-Cola suddenly move their HQ for fear that they couldn't attract gay talent?

How about a certain state neighboring Indiana -- Ohio? Did all of the Fortune 500 companies in Ohio (of which there are a boatload) up and leave when Ohio constitutionally banned gay marriage?

What about the 5 states (yes, there are only 5) that allow gay marriage? Is Boston suddenly more economically vibrant (more than it already was) because Massachusetts allows gay marriage? When the Iowa Supreme Court ruled that that state had to allow gay marriage, did a bunch of major corporations suddenly roll into Des Moines? Is Des Moines suddenly a gay magnet??

You and Domergurl are going completely overboard with your "sky is falling" mentality. Look, I agree that there are more important issues for the General Assembly to take on. I see no reason to force a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage, especially considering that statute already forbids it. The immigration bill is over-the-top, IMO, as well. I'm somewhat on the fence with right-to-work and education reform. But if the anti-gay marriage efforts succeed (and there's no guarantee they will; certainly they are years away from succeeding), it would only put Indiana in camp with the vast majority of U.S. states. Because it's not just Indiana that has an issue with gay marriage. America has an issue with it.

Ultimately, it will probably require making sexual orientation a protected status under the Civil Rights Act before gay rights are really advanced in this country.

The gay presence in Atlanta is more than "notable." In fact, it's quite substantial.

I'm familiar with Athens, Georgia and it has a "notable" gay presence. I've only been in Savannah once, but I saw a gay presence during my visit. Other parts of Georgia are largely rural and very conservative like Indiana.

As I see it, the anti-gay rhetoric in Indiana has more of a ripple effect due to the smaller pond. It just creates more waves and ripples in the pond, because it's smaller. The state of Georgia is a much bigger pond. Likewise, for the huge population of metro Atlanta.

Strength in numbers is something Indianapolis lacks compared to Atlanta. Sure, there is anti-gay rhetoric here. But the hundreds of thousands of gays and lesbians lessens the impact of anti-gay rhetoric to some degree. Many companies have a lot of gay employees here and they're very gay-friendly. I assume the number of gay employees in Indianapolis is substantially less.

You mentioned the state of Ohio. I know that the city of Columbus has one of the best gay communities in the country. From what I've read, it receives rave reviews. I've criss-crossed the Midwest countless times but I've never had the pleasure of visiting Columbus.

I've been through Cincinnati countless times and it's a very conservative city.

I know Des Moines fairly well. It is a magnet for Iowa gays and lesbians. It's not a magnet nationally for gays but locally it sure is.

Politically, I do not view the state of Iowa and Indiana as comparable states. Iowa has a history of progressive politics while Indiana falls quite a bit short in this respect.

Gay marriage is a wedge issue. Homophobic Republicans only fan the flames of hate to scare people. In that respect, the sky is falling.

More than a few Republicans in the chain of command are closet homosexuals. Who are they fooling? Shame on them. They are quite willing to throw their gay brothers and sisters under the bus for power and influence. We're only pawns in their twisted, self-loathing, demented brains.

[Zel Ya]

Originally Posted by grmasterb

Why is it important for there to be an almost-exclusively gay area? How is that indicative of acceptance? When cities are segregated by race, it's often considered to be evidence of racial hostility.



So? Same can be said for many states. Small manufacturing-based cities and rural areas are depopulating all over.



There is a gay presence in Indy. I told you where to find them.

"There is a gay presence in Indy. I told you where to find them."

Look, a few isolated gays scattered here and there flying a few rainbow flags does not make a gay community.

If you want to know where gays live, sometimes a good barometer is looking at the yards and the general conditon of a house. Not all gays have immaculate yards but quite a few do especially for houses in the median price ranges.

You're putting words in my mouth. I did not infer that acceptance denotes living in an all-gay community.

[Johnny Vanderburgh]

Originally Posted by Zel Ya

If you want to know where gays live, sometimes a good barometer is looking at the yards and the general conditon of a house.

So that explains the cat-calls I've been getting while working in my yard.

Would a refrigerator or two on my lawn get me some female attention?

[grmasterb]

Originally Posted by Zel Ya

If you want to know where gays live, sometimes a good barometer is looking at the yards and the general conditon of a house.

Wow, one of the most ignorant statements I've seen on C-D. I mean, if a well-maintained house and yard should set off gaydar, then there are a hell of a lot of more gays in this country than the most generous of previous estimates.

How do you know that Indianapolis isn't a magnet for gays in Indiana? Doesn't Bloomington have a respectable number of gays? Then again, how do we measure the number of gays? Is that on the census forms?

As for Iowa, exactly what is this history of progressive politics? The same politics that recently threw out of office three supreme court justices that had decided the case that instituted gay marriage in Iowa? In fact, Iowa seems poised to revoke gay marriage, not embrace it. Is Iowa suddenly hostile towards gays?

You have nothing but conjecture to suggest that Indiana is more hostile towards gays. And by your own admission, you've been just a passer-through around here. Well, I've lived here for almost 16 years, I spent most of my childhood in Ohio and I've lived for a period of time in the small-town South. So, I think I have a pretty good feel for how things are around here and how they compare to other areas. You're just trolling. Move along.

[domergurl]

Yea, that wasn't exactly a harbinger of "you know when someone is gay when ..." I mean really Zel.

I think this legislation will give the appearance that Indiana is less than hospitable to gays and minorities (with the immigration legislation) and also to people who respect a woman's right to choose to keep, adopt out or terminate a pregnancy (choice). Companies who want to recruit people out of college or recruit executives will be hurt ... the brain drain will continue. The best and brightest will come here to be educated and then leave.

It's sad because Mitch has left the building ... the inmates have taken over the asylum.

And for those who's clever (sic) retort to me about jobs being created ... that's bunk. These social conservatives who were swept in on a wave of "throw the bums out" campaigned on jobs jobs jobs ... THAT was their mantra and people fell for it. So, using their own campaign rhetoric ... how is this exclusive, uber socially conservative legislation going to get hoosiers back to work?

[wh15395]

Originally Posted by Zel Ya

Look, a few isolated gays scattered here and there flying a few rainbow flags does not make a gay community.

It seems like it would be better to live in a place where gays don't need a community. A place where they can live anywhere and still feel accepted by all of their neighbors. While this may not be Indianapolis now, maybe it could be someday. And while we are on the topic of segregation, Indianapolis is already considered about the least racially segregated city in the country. That at least indicates that this trend could cross into sexual orientation integration as well.

[prairiestate]

You know it seems that most people here are missing the point. It's not that Indiana needs to legalize gay marriage, or that doing so will have some massive economic benefit. However, young people today are overwhelmingly socially progressive, and can largely move about the country at will. California may have banned gay marriage, but it is otherwise long been seen as a progressive state, and has many qualities often seen as desirable (weather, scenery, concentration of jobs in some fields). Indiana is already fighting an uphill battle with a reputation as a conservative, decaying manufacturing state. Proudly passing a constitutional amendment that will lock discrimination into place isn't going to help. Within a few decades, the tide will turn overwhelmingly, and Indiana will be forced to sheepishly remove this amendment, just like states had to overturn racial provisions, or when Kentucky decided to remove proper dueling procedures from their constitution a decade ago. They thought it just made the state look silly.

[TaylorRothschild]

Seems like the waters in here are pretty muddy.

Was this anti-gay marriage legislation a waste of time & completely political in nature? Of course.

But to confuse that with Indiana "scaring business away" or "causing the brightest to flee" is ridiculous. Indiana is run conservatively, always has been. And extremely well with regards to finances. It's only 1 of 11 states with AAA credit rating, and it's debt of 2% makes it's more liberal neighbors (ILL / MICH / OHIO) salivate with envy.

So yes, these jokers are scoring points with their conservative constituents. It's an old game and it's not going away, on either side of the aisle.

But the conservatism shown by Indiana's leadership should generally be applauded in these tough times - there's a reason Mitch is in demand for consultations with neighboring governors. :-)