What do you think about Right to Work? (shop, safety)

[Broadrippleguy]

Originally Posted by IndyBound75

At first, when I heard about Indiana following suit of Wisconsin, I freaked because I am going back to school to be an educator, and I want to relocate to Indiana to teach. I saw the hype that the media worked up about unions, and they made it sound unfair that the unions should be eliminated. Now that I read this real life example of someone being around a union all of their lives, maybe being a teacher will not be as bad if their is no more "union". I am not teaching for the money anyway; I am teaching to make a difference.

Then youll be fine in Indiana a good teacher cares about the kids.
A Bad teacher cares about the $$$.
So you shouldn't have a problem and welcome to Indiana

[jman07]

Originally Posted by Toxic Toast

Not really. On your own admission the info is dated quite a bit, so much that one local example that contradicts the info is excluded.

It was from 2003. Since then other plants were also Built in rtw states, and one Honda plant isn't much compared to all the other jobs and manufacturers moving to other rtw states, which is the point of the data.

[domergurl]

Originally Posted by Broadrippleguy

Then youll be fine in Indiana a good teacher cares about the kids.
A Bad teacher cares about the $$$.
So you shouldn't have a problem and welcome to Indiana

Not so fast there young un ...the environment for Hoosier teachers is abyssmal. There are licensed teachers who cannot get hired and join the sub rolls just to get a foot in the door. I'm all for great teachers, and I encourage them to come here, but they need to have their eyes wide open that getting a full time job may require relocation to any part of the state.

[indy_317]

Originally Posted by fallingwater

Exactly. I also find it amusing that people that try to say that Detroit's downfall was related purely to the unions. Detroit's demise is due to government corruption.

I has to do with the benefits given to the union workers. Instead of focusing on working conditions, other benefits, the answer from GM was "pay them more." Every lifetime pension system that is connected to how much one makes will always bankrupt an entity if wages continually increase. It wasn't really the "high pay" the workers got while working, it is the fact that some of them sit at home for 20-30 years not working, yet still receive a salary.

Promises were made, not just to auto unions, but some airline pilot unions as well, that couldn't be kept. We are now seeing the same issue with municipalities. Too many IOUs, not enough tax revenue to cover them. So now we have municipalities actually declaring bankruptcy, lawsuits get filed, and who knows where this will all eventually end up.

Legacy costs, for both union and non-union workers, bankrupted GM and Chrysler. The only way a company or municipality can survive if it offers a life-time perk like a pension or subsidized healthcare is to pretty much demand a 35+ year working career. Not only that, the pension can't be tied to whatever wage a person may make over the course of their career. Instead, it should be a fixed amount, only adjusted minimally, if even that.

The whole issue of RTW really has to do about Republicans sticking it to Democrats. News media reported last year that in Indiana, 100% of union donations were to Democrats. Not one Republican was said to have gotten a dime in campaign contributions, which more and more people see as bribes. On the flip side, the Chamber of Commerce was said to at least give around 20% to Democrats, even though Democrats are said to be anti-big business. While union dues aren't supposed to go to campaign donations, I'm not sure how strongly that is enforced. I hear that there are to be no overseas donations to presidential campaigns, but how likely is it that not one non-American donates? This is about harming the Democrats by hitting them in their pocketbooks.

In the end, who knows where we will end up. I have serious worries about the future. There are just way too many folks depending on others to keep their gravy train coming. Eventually I see a complete collapse, and what will come out of the ashes...who knows. So far, I see a lot of non-skilled $50K-$120K union jobs that have vanished, replaced with jobs paying $22K-$50K, yet I'm still not seeing the price of obtaining the "American Dream" as low as it needs to be to match that wage level. For the last couple decades, we have used debt as a means to replace those high upper middle class union wages. That is now coming to an end, and even lowering the interest rate on a 30-year fixed mortgage to say 1% would likely only be a band-aid solution.

Originally Posted by domergurl

I'm all for great teachers, and I encourage them to come here, but they need to have their eyes wide open that getting a full time job may require relocation to any part of the state.

I would say that from what I'm seeing, this applies to basically every job, and moving isn't even confined to within state boarders. If you aren't able to move, you could really end up harming yourself financially. I know some on here come from families that are scattered all over the country. Well, outside about 30ish people, my entire family is in the Indy area. I grew up with two sets of grandparents, numerous cousins, second cousins, etc.. We really only had two times a year for extended family gatherings for one side of the family: A summer picnic and Christmas day party. Moving away was something totally foreign to me, even though a few of my second/third cousins moved to different states over the later part of the 1900s.

It seems that once families start moving, it is easier to keep moving for jobs and such. The focus on "family" usually means the immediate family, seeing grandparents and others one or two times a year. I will say, with the advent of things like Facebook and such, connection seems to be even easier that it would have been in the past.

After now being on my own and an adult, and seeing cousins and other family members get married, have kids, and get their own busy lives, birthday parties and the like get harder to plan and you don't always see everyone as often as you did when you were a kid. As such, I could see it being somewhat easier for me to move away. I'm not sure I would want to move far away, but in the end, one really does have to go where they believe they can actually make a living. With the country constantly changing, your comment about having a willingness to move has never been more true.

[Toxic Toast]

According to Ball State University's Center for Business and Economic Research, Right to Work may not be that big of a deal.

Right-to-work law isn't likely to affect manufacturing in Indiana, Ball State economist finds | FortWayne.com - Fort Wayne IN

[Broadrippleguy]

Originally Posted by Toxic Toast

According to Ball State University's Center for Business and Economic Research, Right to Work may not be that big of a deal.

Right-to-work law isn't likely to affect manufacturing in Indiana, Ball State economist finds | FortWayne.com - Fort Wayne IN

That depends.
Some shops there are *good* unions that actually work very well to get the job done and work in the interest of the business. however in industries like the Auto Industry companies like Ford which has a manufacturing plant in Chicago Heights, IL they would save a decent amount on wages for newcomers. I personally agree with the idea you should get a lower wage at the beginning of the job because in manufacturing if you don't have experience you are actually a liability if you mess up a part and now it has to be recalled in vehicles. (Ford had to recall 750,000 vans and SUVs recently). So theres a good reason newcomers in manufacturing get lower payments but the problem is in union shops and especially with UAW they set the lowest wage at like 17.50 an hour. It actually should be more around 15.00 for the first 6 months but anyway i see the automotive and aircraft building industries taking advantage of RTW most and i'm glad to see the democrats will finally return to work.

Also the only Union that shouldn't be part of RTW is Construction because there is very little room to strike etc.

[Broadrippleguy]

Update: Actually something i agree with the Democrats with possible state referendum on Right to Work just like the Property Tax Caps. If passed Right to Work Becomes law.
lol thats fine if a MAJORITY of Hoosiers want Right to Work then it shouldn't be a problem in November just hope the Republicans in the House agree to this.

[Toxic Toast]

Originally Posted by Broadrippleguy

Update: Actually something i agree with the Democrats with possible state referendum on Right to Work just like the Property Tax Caps. If passed Right to Work Becomes law.
lol thats fine if a MAJORITY of Hoosiers want Right to Work then it shouldn't be a problem in November just hope the Republicans in the House agree to this.

The problem with that is that the majority of Hoosiers do not understand Right to Work, and this bill will be decided by nothing more than mudslinging and fear-mongering from both sides of the ailse. I guess that makes it like any other election.

[msamhunter]

No a lot of people do not understand RTW and people get a lot of other aspects with RTW confused with unions. For instance, saw a fb post on one of those WTHR questions about RTW. This young lady spouted off some things and at the end she stated something along the lines of with RTW an employer can just fire you. Well Indiana is an "At Will" state so an employer can just fire you anyway union or not. A simple confusion. Worker safety is actually defined by OSHA or whatever acronym is uses so that's moot and outside of negotiated contracts between union and said company, no one can actually force you to join a union if you want to look at it from the other side.

But for the most part, if it's an open shop; a shop where both union and non-union work, RTW or not, they won't see a difference because it's already in play. It's when it's a closed shop; where the union has negotiated with said company to ONLY hire union workers and anyone who works there HAS to be in a union and pay dues etc is where there's going to be an issue. That takes away from the union esp. if it's a poorly run union.

RTW or not, doesn't matter to me personally. I understand the premise that wages COULD go lower being a RTW state but if what Govey D said panned out and it brought more jobs (it won't), which would you rather have, a job making slightly less or no job making ZERO.

[southernnaturelover]

Originally Posted by fallingwater

Union jobs have been on a steady decline for years. So has the middle class. It amazes me that many don't seem to connect the dots. With only 10% of Hoosiers belonging to a union, this decline should have increased jobs if the argument is that unions are keeping businesses away. Union members are not disillusioned on what unions do for them, who is disillusioned are those that do not belong to unions. If one feels so strongly about not joining a union, then don't. There sure are plenty of employers out there that are not part of one. Crushing unions has nothing to do with economy. It has to do with politics and greed. Businesses don't want to establish themselves in the U.S. unless they get backing that people should take what is offered, end of story. If americans don't like it, well more money can be had in other countries where there are not as much restrictions on the welfare of workers. Ask Newt, school children can clean the school after the class. Who needs those high paid janitors. Unions are not killing this country people, greed is.

'Right to work' states still have unions, the difference is that the employees get to choose whether or not they want to join. I worked in a unionized plant for 10 years, yet I never joined the union.

Even if Indiana becomes a 'right to work' state, the unions aren't going anywhere. After awhile though, younger employees will begin realizing they don't need the union, and membership will start declining.