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Old 09-14-2013, 12:22 PM
 
Location: Flatlands of Indiana (Mishawaka)
290 posts, read 809,925 times
Reputation: 142

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Quote:
Originally Posted by msamhunter View Post
Mishawaka, no. It functions like ft. Worth to dallas or oakland to san fran. It is the south bend-mishawaja msa. Granger, yes.
Or Granger to Mishawaka?
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Old 07-28-2014, 02:16 PM
 
Location: Granger Indiana.
10 posts, read 13,955 times
Reputation: 10
Living here in Granger for a while now, and never thought of Granger as part of anything especially SB. We just think of it as small community really. The definition of suburbs really isn't something that is set in concrete, I think it means something slightly different to everybody. Just as the word success or love also mean something different to everybody. Although South Bend does have a down town, recent construction and developments in Granger are moving closer and closer towards a sort of "down town" if you will. For example The new Martin's plaza, foscana park. Typically on a map you will see Granger pin-pointed by the railroad tracks down by the new gates dealership. Would you call this a downtown? Its in granger, and there are businesses, dealerships, restaurants, markets, camping grounds, etc. Therefore there is quite a bit of places you could get hired at within Granger alone.
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Old 07-28-2014, 06:20 PM
 
Location: Mishawaka, Indiana
6,205 posts, read 8,352,813 times
Reputation: 4622
Quote:
Originally Posted by asiacherry4 View Post
Living here in Granger for a while now, and never thought of Granger as part of anything especially SB. We just think of it as small community really. The definition of suburbs really isn't something that is set in concrete, I think it means something slightly different to everybody. Just as the word success or love also mean something different to everybody. Although South Bend does have a down town, recent construction and developments in Granger are moving closer and closer towards a sort of "down town" if you will. For example The new Martin's plaza, foscana park. Typically on a map you will see Granger pin-pointed by the railroad tracks down by the new gates dealership. Would you call this a downtown? Its in granger, and there are businesses, dealerships, restaurants, markets, camping grounds, etc. Therefore there is quite a bit of places you could get hired at within Granger alone.
Suburb has a clear an concise definition and Granger definitely meets all of the criteria. In my original post I should have excluded Mishawaka. Mishawaka is clearly its own city, just a smaller one sitting next to a larger one.

Granger is a very new "town". Earliest population records date back to 1990, Mishawaka and South Bend are from the 1800's. Granger has an extremely high median household income, right around $95,000 per household compared to South Bend and Mishawaka which are between $40,000 and $50,000. This is something all suburbs have, Carmel and Fishers to Indianapolis, Aurora to Chicago, Dearborn to Detroit, Franklin to Nashville, Marietta to Atlanta, they are all small towns with very high earning and wealthy people living in them.

Granger doesn't even have a city government. It's not even a town, just a CDP. Granger has no downtown, no business district, no hospital, not even sure if Granger has libraries.

Granger is a suburb because it is extremely suburban. Granger is made up of nothing but subdivisions. In Mishawaka and South Bend you have an older stock of homes, you even have some apartments, and a mix of subdivisions, not so in Granger.

The last tell tale sign, where do most people in Granger work? I'd be willing to be that very few of them actually work and live in Granger. Many of them probably work in the city, high paying jobs are found at the heads of companies, law offices, hospitals, airports, and other private businesses which are mostly set up in the financial district or based in the downtown areas of South Bend or Mishawaka.
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Old 07-29-2014, 07:14 AM
 
Location: Fishers, IN
3,854 posts, read 4,255,143 times
Reputation: 3959
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdAilment View Post
Suburb has a clear an concise definition and Granger definitely meets all of the criteria. In my original post I should have excluded Mishawaka. Mishawaka is clearly its own city, just a smaller one sitting next to a larger one.

Granger is a very new "town". Earliest population records date back to 1990, Mishawaka and South Bend are from the 1800's. Granger has an extremely high median household income, right around $95,000 per household compared to South Bend and Mishawaka which are between $40,000 and $50,000. This is something all suburbs have, Carmel and Fishers to Indianapolis, Aurora to Chicago, Dearborn to Detroit, Franklin to Nashville, Marietta to Atlanta, they are all small towns with very high earning and wealthy people living in them.

Granger doesn't even have a city government. It's not even a town, just a CDP. Granger has no downtown, no business district, no hospital, not even sure if Granger has libraries.

Granger is a suburb because it is extremely suburban. Granger is made up of nothing but subdivisions. In Mishawaka and South Bend you have an older stock of homes, you even have some apartments, and a mix of subdivisions, not so in Granger.

The last tell tale sign, where do most people in Granger work? I'd be willing to be that very few of them actually work and live in Granger. Many of them probably work in the city, high paying jobs are found at the heads of companies, law offices, hospitals, airports, and other private businesses which are mostly set up in the financial district or based in the downtown areas of South Bend or Mishawaka.
The bolded section is completely untrue. For example, Fishers was incorporated in 1891. Carmel was incorporated in 1874 but platted as Bethlehem in 1837. Both are most definitely suburbs of Indianapolis but towns obviously don't have to be new to be a suburb.

And suburbs certainly don't have to be rich. In fact, more than half of the poverty in Chicago is in the suburbs. Just Google Chicago suburb poverty or poor Chicago suburbs and you can find countless articles talking about how poverty has moved from the city into the suburbs.

Like this one:
How Poverty Moved To Chicago

Or this one:
Heartland Alliance study of census data: Poverty soars in Chicago suburbs | WBEZ 91.5 Chicago

Or this one:
The face of poverty in Chicago suburbs is no longer what you might think | Chicago Muckrakers

So speaking of Chicago, the median household income, according to CD, is $45,214. Cicero has a median household income of $39,680. Calumet City is $39,377. East Chicago is $26,513. All are suburbs of Chicago. In St. Louis, the median household income is $31,000. East St. Louis, a suburb on the Illinois side of the river, the median household income is a staggering $17,756. In Indianapolis, it's true that most of the suburbs have a higher income than Indy itself, but Speedway is almost the same as Indy and Beech Grove's median household income is a bit lower than Indy. Even one you mentioned as a rich suburb, Marietta, GA has a household income of $43,000 while it's major city Atlanta has a household income of $46,000.

Long story short, suburbs are not defined as rich, new places that surround an old, poor city. And they aren't necessarily small towns. Aurora, IL, which you mentioned as a suburb of Chicago, is twice as big as South Bend, IN is. Aurora, CO, a suburb of Denver, would be the 2nd largest city in Indiana with a population approaching twice the size of Fort Wayne.
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Old 07-29-2014, 02:08 PM
 
Location: Bloomington, indiana
53 posts, read 58,745 times
Reputation: 73
It may not be the technically correct answer but I've lived in the area for almost ten years and when I try to explain Granger to people I tell them it's a suburb. That's what it seems like to me. Mishawaka is more like a sister city.
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Old 07-29-2014, 05:34 PM
 
4,877 posts, read 4,562,089 times
Reputation: 7268
Quote:
Originally Posted by ischyros View Post
And suburbs certainly don't have to be rich. In fact, more than half of the poverty in Chicago is in the suburbs. Just Google Chicago suburb poverty or poor Chicago suburbs and you can find countless articles talking about how poverty has moved from the city into the suburbs.
So speaking of Chicago, the median household income, according to CD, is $45,214. Cicero has a median household income of $39,680.
FYI, The CTA (Chicago Trans. Authority) is available to Cicero, Berwyn and Oak Park (technically suburbs).
The medium household income in Oak Park is over $75,000 and the average price of a SFH is about
$400K (and that's cheap for OP). Berwyn (close to Cicero) has a large concentration of historic bungalows
and new businesses are starting to arrive seeing the potential of this "suburb" which is a few miles (7) from
the loop. So comparing Fishers, IN and some Chicago suburbs to South Bend and Granger
is far fetched.
But to the original question- Mishawaka is not a suburb of South Bend and Granger is a township
but most people view it as an area outside of the SB/Mishawaka area.
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Old 07-29-2014, 08:06 PM
 
Location: the Great Lakes states
796 posts, read 2,073,260 times
Reputation: 529
If you go by the typical understanding that people have about suburbs -- that they are more upscale, more middle-class, less crowded, have better schools, are less ethnic, attract better retailers, safer and are less crime-ridden than the city -- then Mishawaka and Granger are definitely suburbs.

I have always considered Mishawaka, Granger, Osceola, Niles, and the Penn schools area to be suburbs of South Bend, which is the larger, more industrial, more ethnic city.

Mishawaka and Niles happen to be chartered as "cities," but for that matter so are Orland Park and Naperville in Illinois, which are also considered suburbs of their major city.

Super Target, Whole Foods, Costco, etc. all choose to build in Mishawaka over South Bend because of a more suburban clientele. Mishawaka, Niles, and Penn schools attract residents who might work in South Bend, but want to avoid the city schools of South Bend.
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Old 07-29-2014, 09:17 PM
 
Location: Fort Wayne
619 posts, read 1,443,742 times
Reputation: 354
For all technical purposes, Granger is a suburb. A suburb is an area where people LIVE, but generally commute to the larger city in the metro area for work. Hardly anybody works in Granger, because there are not really businesses to work at besides shopping destinations. Mishawaka is definitely not a suburb. Mishawaka has it's own identity and a very distinct downtown along with many older Mishawaka neighborhoods. The northern tier of Mishawaka, once you get north of McKinley is the newer area of Mishawaka, which spills into Granger.
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Old 07-30-2014, 06:18 AM
 
Location: Fishers, IN
3,854 posts, read 4,255,143 times
Reputation: 3959
Quote:
Originally Posted by baileyvpotter View Post
FYI, The CTA (Chicago Trans. Authority) is available to Cicero, Berwyn and Oak Park (technically suburbs).
The medium household income in Oak Park is over $75,000 and the average price of a SFH is about
$400K (and that's cheap for OP). Berwyn (close to Cicero) has a large concentration of historic bungalows
and new businesses are starting to arrive seeing the potential of this "suburb" which is a few miles (7) from
the loop. So comparing Fishers, IN and some Chicago suburbs to South Bend and Granger
is far fetched.
But to the original question- Mishawaka is not a suburb of South Bend and Granger is a township
but most people view it as an area outside of the SB/Mishawaka area.
I'm not sure what you're talking about here. I wasn't comparing Fishers, Chicago suburbs, or any suburbs in general to South Bend and Granger. I was pointing out to a previous poster that not all suburbs are small, rich areas as they had stated.
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Old 07-30-2014, 06:43 AM
 
4,877 posts, read 4,562,089 times
Reputation: 7268
Quote:
Originally Posted by summer22 View Post
-- then Mishawaka and Granger are definitely suburbs.
I have always considered Mishawaka, Granger, Osceola, Niles, and the Penn schools area to be suburbs of South Bend, which is the larger, more industrial, more ethnic city.
Mishawaka and Niles happen to be chartered as "cities," but for that matter so are Orland Park and Naperville in Illinois, which are also considered suburbs of their major city.

Super Target, Whole Foods, Costco, etc. all choose to build in Mishawaka over South Bend because of a more suburban clientele. Mishawaka, Niles, and Penn schools attract residents who might work in South Bend, but want to avoid the city schools of South Bend.
Maybe you have thought this way and some others but if you were to tell a Mishawaka resident that
it is more or less a suburb of SB, there would be a lot of opposition to that statement. And, Niles
is in MICHIGAN. So would Kenosha WI be a suburb of Chicago? The Chicago suburb
statement could then mean almost every town or city 100 miles away is a suburb, even Rockford.
The Grape Rd. corridor of stores are in Mishawaka (and by the way, through the years that area
kept expanding- before UP mall it had a few homes and farms) was a central location for
both Mishawaka and South Bend with room for expansion. It was not specifically designated for suburban clientele.
I have said this before, people who were transferred to the area from out of state were never shown
homes in South Bend proper. It was only after meeting South Bend residents at their new job did
they realize the handsome neighborhoods and homes that South Bend had.
The powers to be and real estate agents in Granger were very successful in instilling fear about South Bend schools and South Bend itself since the 80's.
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