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So, part of your beef is that people in Indiana aren't friendly enough? Are you kidding? Maybe that's the case in an outlying suburb, where people who don't want to be bothered might go. But that isn't peculiar to Indiana.
My hometown is Denver. I'd only been to Indianapolis a couple of times before moving here, yet I knew more people in my neighborhood here before I even moved in than I did where I'd lived in Denver for 20 years. Trying to make friends there was so difficult that I got rid of my dining room set because there was nobody to use it. As for Colorado's mental health, Colorado's suicide rate is one of the highest in the country (Indiana is about in the middle). (Source: cdc.gov.)
Indianapolis is getting a new mental health facility, the IMPD has trained officers to find people with mental health problem and divert them to mental health services, and the mayor wants more emphasis on mental health in the criminal justice system. That said, more treatment isn't necessarily helpful. Some depression medications are no more effective than placebos and disorders in the DSM have come and gone.
As for Trump, Indiana is a rust belt state, and his victory here likely had more to do with manufacturing jobs than anything else.
Be that as it may, I don't see that any of this makes Indiana (at least around Indy) a depressing place to live. There's a lot of work available, low COL, it's mostly sunny, lots of friendly people (IME), and there's a little of everything around Indy: city, suburbs, farms, parks, meetup groups, entertainment, etc. Nevertheless, it apparently isn't for everyone.
The fact that you like Indy more than Denver is not a particularly compelling argument. Mental health services here are atrocious. Shockingly bad. I don't know what a new mental health facility means -- that could be anything -- but the problem is a systemic one.
I am delighted that you are happy with Indiana. That is great, and I hope you continue to find happiness here!
Mental health services here are atrocious. Shockingly bad. I don't know what a new mental health facility means -- that could be anything -- but the problem is a systemic one.
Indiana does have an issue with treating those with mental health (not addiction related) issues. We closed Central State and some of our downtown homeless (at least a decade and more ago) had gotten treatment there. I heard the state close down other institutions as well. The problem of course is money. How much the state takes in and how much it spends in various areas of governing. Indiana lost lots of $50-$120K+/year manufacturing jobs. I had relatives that were skill tradesman working at GM that were walking out the door making $60-$70K/year in the 90s and earlier. If they worked over-time, which there was plenty of, they would have easily made tens of thousands more. Most of those jobs have vanished and new contracts pay workers much less than before. All that higher taxable income vanished, so now we have a lot more $10-$20 light factory/warehouse jobs, minimal over-time, possibly costly benefits, and the cost of living has just increased in other areas of life. Most people in Indiana can't afford higher income taxation that would be needed for a robust mental health network. Maybe those with household incomes over say $120K/year could afford to pay more, but I'm not so sure there are many of those in the state.
Indiana has lost a lot of high paying manufacturing jobs, many of them union.
Towns like Connersville have been decimated as has Anderson. Delphi, Delco Remy, and Visteon paid a lot better than 10-25/hr that many of the new light manufacturing non-union plants pay.
Workers at Visteon in Connersville were making 26/hr in the 1980s. Those same people now make 10-20/hr 30 years later.
Non-skilled workers have been decimated in this economy. I would argue rightly so (people should be paid what the market says they are worth and unions distort this, especially for less educated) the but it still sucks for them and their families.
I have a cousin who is retired from Chrysler who used to be union rep in 80s and 90s before retiring at 55 with full benefits. He and his family still do quite well even now because he got out early when things were still good.
Lafayette seems to be booming. There are lots of manufacturing companies here, Purdue University and agriculture. I don't know what the workers are paid, but there are lots of companies. To name just a few: Alcoa, Caterpillar, Tate & Lyle, Subaru, GE is building a place.....many more that I can't recall at the moment.
Towns like Connersville have been decimated as has Anderson. Delphi, Delco Remy, and Visteon paid a lot better than 10-25/hr that many of the new light manufacturing non-union plants pay. Workers at Visteon in Connersville were making 26/hr in the 1980s. Those same people now make 10-20/hr 30 years later. I have a cousin who is retired from Chrysler who used to be union rep in 80s and 90s before retiring at 55 with full benefits. He and his family still do quite well even now because he got out early when things were still good.
Many of my relatives in their 60s, and those who have since passed, were union employees in the manufacturing field. Most of them got lucky and were able to retire from their Indy based factories before they closed. Some of them weren't and had to start over, and chang careers mid-life. A friend's relative had to do his last two or three years at Chrysler in Kokomo, driving from the east side of Indy after the Shadeland plant was closed. Another relative said that as early as the 2000s, the skilled trade hourly rate at Chevy Truck and Bus for evening shift on Christmas Eve and Christmas was $99/hour. Think about that, work two days, two eight hour shifts, and basically make $1,600 before taxes.
Now that the wife and I are settled in our new home, I've finally gotten around to getting out more. Mostly going to wilderness areas/parks, a couple small town festivals, and trying some local eateries. Been out to Winchester, Richmond, Connersville, etc., sometimes driving through, other times stopping at a destination. I honestly don't know what is keeping half of these places from just drying up and blowing away. I guess the welfare money combined with whatever lower incomes are around can keep the Walmart and other retail places going. I think the biggest issue that many of these places faced is that you had the old union money (plus retirement) that has artificially inflated housing values. People at the new pay scale couldn't make enough to afford $150K for a late 70s/early 80s all brick or stone ranch. My folks have a similar house, 2,000 sq. ft., and they paid $65K in an Indy suburb for this kind of house. Today such a custom built home would cost around $175K, if not closer to $200K. The owners think their home has to be worth $150K because they might not have a good grasp on what the new economy is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by popcorn247
Lafayette seems to be booming. There are lots of manufacturing companies here, Purdue University and agriculture. I don't know what the workers are paid, but there are lots of companies. To name just a few: Alcoa, Caterpillar, Tate & Lyle, Subaru, GE is building a place.....many more that I can't recall at the moment.
There is some comeback, but nothing like it was for some areas. I have relatives who work for Honda and you end up topping out around $22/hour. They live in Indy, but I think many people are moving closer to Honda. At the end of May, both Shelby and Decatur counties were seeing rising prices in housing sales with a weaker market from the year before. My guess is that a Honda job likely is the reasoning for people moving to those two counties.
I know the Walmart distribution centers don't pay all that bad considering. Something like $12-$14/hour to work the basic sorting type jobs, $17+/hour if you get forklift certified. The one center I knew had people working four ten hour days, something like 3AM to 1PM or 4AM to 2PM. Get Fri. Sat. Sun. off. Biggest issue is that the cost of good housing hasn't really reset to where it needs to be under the new economy.
I drive through Indiana on my trips between Denver and New Jersey. I find it to be a lovely state and a very pleasant drive, but I know several people from there, and they uniformly say they will never go back.
My assumption about the high rate of depression is simply the same as my assumption about the high levels of depression in parts of Colorado - people feel cut off and like there aren't enough opportunities for them. Depression is not at all uncommon in my home state of New Jersey (and I've found mine has alleviated greatly since I left), but there is opportunity everywhere there. It's also relatively easy to change your situation by moving to another metropolitan area - the cities of the northeast seaboard are all within a few hours' drive of each other. If you are born in New Jersey, it's easy enough to relocate to NYC, Philly, DC, Boston, Baltimore, etc. Educational opportunities are vast.
My impression on my drive between Denver and the east coast has been that the cities are few and far between and opportunity may be lacking in those areas.
I could be wrong, but mostly I think when depression is prevalent in an area, it stems from feelings of hopelessness or being trapped.
Honda plant tops out at 25/hr and starts around 17.
It is a very livable wage for those in Decatur County where houses average 80k but you are not going to get past lower middle class on that wage.
Half of those work at Honda live outside of Decatur County btw, with many driving from Shelby and Marion.
Honda deliberately did not include Anderson area in hiring out of fear of unions.
Honda finally got rid of rotating shifts, which had led to high turnover among its workers.
Honda basically saved Greensburg from becoming like connersville and Rushville as Delta Faucet went from 1200 people to 80 during same period (now back up to 300).
Greensburg is mostly non-union and lower wages along with lower unemployment reflect this.
Okay to visit of you have family but not the best place to raise a family as the schools suck.
Once all those union pensioners die off it will be tough road for the economy in areas formerly dependent on union wages. Greensburg will do better as it never had these jobs but will always be working class and farming area.
I grew up in Indiana and then moved down to southern Florida for my career after college. Forty-three years later, I moved back to my hometown in Indiana. What a world of difference from my life in Florida. Ahhhhhh, people are so much more friendly, cost of living is much, much lower here, life is much less hectic and common sense is common! I love the four seasons, beautiful woods, variety of food, and a much safer community.
I grew up in Indiana and then moved down to southern Florida for my career after college. Forty-three years later, I moved back to my hometown in Indiana. What a world of difference from my life in Florida. Ahhhhhh, people are so much more friendly, cost of living is much, much lower here, life is much less hectic and common sense is common! I love the four seasons, beautiful woods, variety of food, and a much safer community.
You stayed away for 43 years though. It isn't like you left only to realize that Indiana had so much to offer that within a year or two you came back. I've lived in central Indiana my entire life. While there are some good things here, I think that anyone can get sick of a place after so long. Maybe had I actually ventured out in my youth I'd think different, or at least have a different perspective.
I also think that if housing were more reasonable in certain parts of the country, the complaints about high cost of living would quickly go away. More people would want to stay and others would want to move there. I have no idea if my wife and I will ever move, my future career endeavors will determine if that ever happens. My life turned out good, but not really great, so I can't complain too much. I sometimes wish I would've had the opportunity to live in the LA area, or San Diego area. Even Florida is enticing in some ways.
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I generally agree with last Post
