Are the folks of IN "regressive" and "backward"? (South Bend: new home, buy)

[DLK55]

Management?:

A new revenue forecast for 2009 through 2011 shows a $763 million budget shortfall.

Indiana revenue forecast shows huge budget deficit

Aides to Gov. Pat Quinn say the Illinois budget deficit is even worse than previously thought.

Instead of $9 billion, they now estimate the gap at $11.5 billion.

Illinois Budget Deficit Tops $11.5 Billion

[prairiestate]

In addition to smoking, Indiana rankings poorly in other public health statistics.

Dialysis centers on the rise in NWI / nwi.com

[prairiestate]

Average wages in Indiana are well below average, and the state continues to fall behind.

Eye on the Pie column: Indiana wages now 16 percent below U.S. average / nwi.com

[fallingwater]

Originally Posted by JViello

There is a thread going on in the CT forum where such claims are being made. I would be curious to see some of your input on the matter.

I don't agree with that...but some in the thread do.

http://www.city-data.com/forum/conne...ckwards-3.html

Ok, Im sure many will not be happy with my comments but yes, I do believe Indiana is backwards. Sorry but coming from another state, I was a bit surprised by a lot of things.

First off, let me start off by saying what is good about Indiana. Well at least from my experience living here for about a year now.

- The St. Joseph county has an awesome recycle program which I feel is progressive. From where I come from recycling was too much of a budget buster to bother with and that always bothered me. While some might not think recycling program is a big deal, it is. I have a huge can that I can fill up each week to recycle and it cuts my trash output in half. It makes me feel good that I am at least not filling up a landfill as much as possible.

- customer service at the local businesses is really good. I do have my complaints about the local walmart but hell who dont?

- Penn schools does seem quite progressive in their education. Yes the high school is too large. Im not crazy about that but the choices of extra classes is amazing that is not common in the areas I have lived.

- Indiana takes care of its parks. I was amazed at the beauty of all the different parks in Mishawaka.

- Property taxes. I have to laugh when people complain about how high the property taxes are here. Trust me, your taxes are a bargain.

- cost of food is cheaper than where I am from so for me it was a bonus. It is cheaper to eat at home verses going out.

- exercise. I was shocked to see so many people that walk, ride their bikes or run. That is awesome.

- Organic foods. So many places that sell organic foods which I find quite progressive.

Ok the bad...

-first off I have never been so pissed off at getting a new drivers license, plates, library card, etc in my life. Indiana government seems quite paranoid. Im expecting DNA samples next in the pursuit of getting anything done here. I went thru so much BS trying to change my damn address. Hubby has all of the utilities in his name. They require that I have some sort of bill in my name ONLY to get my address changed. It dawned on me that I have nothing in my name other than junk mail. So I had to bring in my marriage license to change my address to PROVE I was married even though my last name matches my husband. The girl made me look down while taking my photo. I look like Im 300 lbs. It is the most awful picture I have ever taken. The bonus was I got to wait 45 minutes and pay 10 bucks for it. Changing an address from where Im from is free and does not require extensive proof you moved.

-The radio stations. When I first moved here I thought cool, it must be retro hour on the radio. Ummm no. It seems playing 80's - 90's rock is the norm. I realized retro hour is more like everyday radio. yes, new music has been made since 1985.

-Teen pregnancy is a huge problem. Mishawaka schools has a graduation rate of only 49%. That is pretty sad.

-Blight. Mishawaka has the most charming older homes but they are overshadowed by the neighbor next door that has so much crap in their yard that when I first moved here I couldnt tell if someone was preparing for a yard sale or collected a life worth of junk and deposited it in their yard. The city needs to get involved by taking care of this problem.

-Cops. SOoo many cops. I never saw so many cops but the crime is unreal in such a small area.

-Pizza. I really feel sorry for people here cuss getting two large pizzas for 32 bucks is INSANE! I have never had such awful tasting pizza in my life. Then to pay 32 bucks for it just makes me barf, even before eating the pizza.

-When I had to go to small claims court, the judge would not let me submit documents that I found from a government website cuss he never heard of it. Umm..the EPA is a government agency! Does he not own a computer?

-Speaking of computers..was shocked that most of the guys my husband works with, do not own a computer or never have. Who in the hell doesnt own a computer now?

-Economic separation. I never really understood why there is such a rival between Mishawaka and Granger peeps. It seems that most people from Mishawaka think people in Granger are rich. I get appalled by bloggers on WSBT that make comments when a house in Granger burns down. I often see "Good, another richie loses a house" or " another mansion burns down,hooray!"

-Clicky. Had a hard time fitting in because I wasnt born and breed here so chose to move to Granger with all the other transplants.

-Pro-life groups. yes, I am pro-choice and believe a woman has the right to choose. I also believe people have the right to be pro-life. But I am just amazed at how bold the pro-life groups are. I was sickened by the panel trucks driving up and down the streets with graphic images of dead babies. I was not not pleased explaining to my son why the truck next to us at the red light had a bloody dead fetus on the side of it.

-Chase bank. I have belonged to this bank for many years. Every time I go into the branch here they screw stuff up. Every dealing I have with ordering checks, changing back account information ends up being a two part trip. The first trip to complete the transaction and the second trip to fix it.

-Racial tension. I find that white people seem terrified of the black people. They are fake in interactions and then get racial after the person leaves.


Before anyone gets their panties in a wad, obviously this area had enough charm for me to move here. My husband got a great job but partly because the HR woman told him they couldnt find an qualified applicant in the 3 yrs they were looking. So its a blessing for us but I do sometimes feel we are living in an area that is a bit backwards. I do enjoy my larger home with a park like backyard that wouldnt be a possibility from where I am from. So in my experience so far, yes Indiana is a bit backwards on a lot of things but it seems mostly to do with government organizations and the people that fear education and change. South Bend could really be a happening place if people opened their minds. We got ND here for peeks sake. Expand the arts, clean up the mess, draw people in but this area seems set on what they know and do not want to progress forward. Well thats my two cents.

[Toxic Toast]

Originally Posted by fallingwater

Ok, Im sure many will not be happy with my comments but yes, I do believe Indiana is backwards. ............


Before anyone gets their panties in a wad, ............. So in my experience so far, yes Indiana is a bit backwards on a lot of things but it seems mostly to do with government organizations and the people that fear education and change.

I don't know why anyone would get their panites in a wad over your post. You didn't say anything that has never been said before.

The only thing in your post I completely disagree with is your pizza talk. I have never heard of a place charging 32 bucks for two large pizzas; unless we are talking specialty pizzas or something. Oh, I don't know anyone that doesn't own a computer; not sure where that came from either.

[grmasterb]

Originally Posted by fallingwater

Ok, Im sure many will not be happy with my comments but yes, I do believe Indiana is backwards. Sorry but coming from another state, I was a bit surprised by a lot of things.

First off, let me start off by saying what is good about Indiana. Well at least from my experience living here for about a year now.

- The St. Joseph county has an awesome recycle program which I feel is progressive. From where I come from recycling was too much of a budget buster to bother with and that always bothered me. While some might not think recycling program is a big deal, it is. I have a huge can that I can fill up each week to recycle and it cuts my trash output in half. It makes me feel good that I am at least not filling up a landfill as much as possible.

- customer service at the local businesses is really good. I do have my complaints about the local walmart but hell who dont?

- Penn schools does seem quite progressive in their education. Yes the high school is too large. Im not crazy about that but the choices of extra classes is amazing that is not common in the areas I have lived.

- Indiana takes care of its parks. I was amazed at the beauty of all the different parks in Mishawaka.

- Property taxes. I have to laugh when people complain about how high the property taxes are here. Trust me, your taxes are a bargain.

- cost of food is cheaper than where I am from so for me it was a bonus. It is cheaper to eat at home verses going out.

- exercise. I was shocked to see so many people that walk, ride their bikes or run. That is awesome.

- Organic foods. So many places that sell organic foods which I find quite progressive.

Ok the bad...

-first off I have never been so pissed off at getting a new drivers license, plates, library card, etc in my life. Indiana government seems quite paranoid. Im expecting DNA samples next in the pursuit of getting anything done here. I went thru so much BS trying to change my damn address. Hubby has all of the utilities in his name. They require that I have some sort of bill in my name ONLY to get my address changed. It dawned on me that I have nothing in my name other than junk mail. So I had to bring in my marriage license to change my address to PROVE I was married even though my last name matches my husband. The girl made me look down while taking my photo. I look like Im 300 lbs. It is the most awful picture I have ever taken. The bonus was I got to wait 45 minutes and pay 10 bucks for it. Changing an address from where Im from is free and does not require extensive proof you moved.

-The radio stations. When I first moved here I thought cool, it must be retro hour on the radio. Ummm no. It seems playing 80's - 90's rock is the norm. I realized retro hour is more like everyday radio. yes, new music has been made since 1985.

-Teen pregnancy is a huge problem. Mishawaka schools has a graduation rate of only 49%. That is pretty sad.

-Blight. Mishawaka has the most charming older homes but they are overshadowed by the neighbor next door that has so much crap in their yard that when I first moved here I couldnt tell if someone was preparing for a yard sale or collected a life worth of junk and deposited it in their yard. The city needs to get involved by taking care of this problem.

-Cops. SOoo many cops. I never saw so many cops but the crime is unreal in such a small area.

-Pizza. I really feel sorry for people here cuss getting two large pizzas for 32 bucks is INSANE! I have never had such awful tasting pizza in my life. Then to pay 32 bucks for it just makes me barf, even before eating the pizza.

-When I had to go to small claims court, the judge would not let me submit documents that I found from a government website cuss he never heard of it. Umm..the EPA is a government agency! Does he not own a computer?

-Speaking of computers..was shocked that most of the guys my husband works with, do not own a computer or never have. Who in the hell doesnt own a computer now?

-Economic separation. I never really understood why there is such a rival between Mishawaka and Granger peeps. It seems that most people from Mishawaka think people in Granger are rich. I get appalled by bloggers on WSBT that make comments when a house in Granger burns down. I often see "Good, another richie loses a house" or " another mansion burns down,hooray!"

-Clicky. Had a hard time fitting in because I wasnt born and breed here so chose to move to Granger with all the other transplants.

-Pro-life groups. yes, I am pro-choice and believe a woman has the right to choose. I also believe people have the right to be pro-life. But I am just amazed at how bold the pro-life groups are. I was sickened by the panel trucks driving up and down the streets with graphic images of dead babies. I was not not pleased explaining to my son why the truck next to us at the red light had a bloody dead fetus on the side of it.

-Chase bank. I have belonged to this bank for many years. Every time I go into the branch here they screw stuff up. Every dealing I have with ordering checks, changing back account information ends up being a two part trip. The first trip to complete the transaction and the second trip to fix it.

-Racial tension. I find that white people seem terrified of the black people. They are fake in interactions and then get racial after the person leaves.


Before anyone gets their panties in a wad, obviously this area had enough charm for me to move here. My husband got a great job but partly because the HR woman told him they couldnt find an qualified applicant in the 3 yrs they were looking. So its a blessing for us but I do sometimes feel we are living in an area that is a bit backwards. I do enjoy my larger home with a park like backyard that wouldnt be a possibility from where I am from. So in my experience so far, yes Indiana is a bit backwards on a lot of things but it seems mostly to do with government organizations and the people that fear education and change. South Bend could really be a happening place if people opened their minds. We got ND here for peeks sake. Expand the arts, clean up the mess, draw people in but this area seems set on what they know and do not want to progress forward. Well thats my two cents.

I'd hope most others don't view the South Bend-Mishawaka area as a barometer for the entire state. After all, this is the region that blessed us with Pat Bauer.

[kanhawk]

Originally Posted by fallingwater

-Racial tension. I find that white people seem terrified of the black people. They are fake in interactions and then get racial after the person leaves.

Don't you think you could find that anywhere? Also, you singled out whites for these regressive racial attitudes, but your perspective might be widened a bit if you go for an evening walk around Gary, Indiana and see how you are treated.

[I-miss-Ind]

Originally Posted by Toxic Toast

I don't know why anyone would get their panites in a wad over your post. You didn't say anything that has never been said before.

The only thing in your post I completely disagree with is your pizza talk. I have never heard of a place charging 32 bucks for two large pizzas; unless we are talking specialty pizzas or something. Oh, I don't know anyone that doesn't own a computer; not sure where that came from either.

As far as the computers go I have found out while attempting to get up with old friends after moving away 30 years ago that there are many people without computers in the So.Bend and neighboring areas and many that do have one share with other extended family members on weekends. Most tell me that either they have better things to do with their time or they just don't want to mess with them. In several very rural areas all you can get is dial-up service and that is not something I would want to deal with either. And for the pizza's, 16 bucks apiece for a loaded large pizza is about the norm I thought, at least it is here in NC.

[carlpa]

Originally Posted by fallingwater

-Pro-life groups. yes, I am pro-choice and believe a woman has the right to choose. I also believe people have the right to be pro-life. But I am just amazed at how bold the pro-life groups are. I was sickened by the panel trucks driving up and down the streets with graphic images of dead babies. I was not not pleased explaining to my son why the truck next to us at the red light had a bloody dead fetus on the side of it.

Anyone who has been keeping up with NEWS recently would know that those trucks driving the streets are from California and it is directly connected to the President's commencement speech at Notre Dame University soon.

Those bold Pro-Life activists have only been driving around town with those vans for a few weeks. I agree with you that its over the line but remember the entire controversy regarding Obama at the University is completely politically motivated. I think those people driving around with those pictures is horrible as well but please do not make it sound like it is residents in the area because it is NOT.

Just because the Catholics are still in the dark ages doesnt give you the right to paint all the residents in this area the same. Many area residents are outraged over this and it's been reported daily on all the local stations.

Some say anti-abortion protests have gone too far | WSBT South Bend - Your Local News Leader | Local News

New Obama protesters in town with graphic images in tow

Those protesters have been doing it across the entire region to NW Indiana and into Chicago.

Notre Dame commencement controversy moves to Chicago / Your Severe Weather Station, South Bend, Indiana News, Weather, Sports, Notre Dame News, StormTeam 16

[cd771]

I recently moved back to Indiana after living for 16 years in Chicago. I grew up in NW Indiana. I haven't lived here long enough to really comment although I have noticed a couple of things in the few people that I have met. Note that this is just my observations in a very short time of being here so do not take it too seriously and I really do like living here again as does my husband (who has never lived in Indiana by the way).

1) Chicagoans are not pro communism and the only Chicagoan I persoanlly knew who was anti-gun is an extremely conservative republican from INDIANA. I never heard any of my neighbors or friends in Chicago say they wanted a gun or wish they could have one. I also never thought of owning a gun in Chicago (nor did I ever see one besides on police officers in my 16 years of living there) however since moving to Indiana we will be purchasing one for protection. The reason I say this is because we were in a gun shop trying to figure out what sort of gun we would get and mentioned to the store clerk that we just moved from Chicago and suddenly there was this outpouring of....Chicago is communist and stuff like that (from just about everyone in the gun store). It wasn't against us and we found it rather humorous but still......

2) Having grown up in Indiana I have started reconnecting with alot of my friends who are still there, which is most, and couldn't believe that some of them are grandparents (I am going on 38). I went to dinner with 8 of my friends and 4 of them have kids in serious trouble with the law, 3 of them have kids who are teenage parents and they all looked at me like I was some sort of freak when I said I do not have kids. All 8 started having kids before the age of 20. 1 doesn't know who the father of one of her kids is (she had her at age 16) and her other two kids have two different fathers. 1 is on welfare and has 4 kids. 3 get food stamps. All our basicly broke. This was something I didn't get before I left. They are all mostly from Whiting where at that time, hopefully this has changed, having kids was what you did, regardless of marital status or having a job, etc. Its like no one is teaching kids to wait a little while....Like until they are married and have a stable income. My parents had 4 of us on my dad's steel mill income and it was always rough but I think for the most part we were happy. My parents were very serious though about teaching us to wait until marriage and to get an education, probably because neither of them had one and my dad always worried about his options if he was ever to get laid off.

3) My husband is from Japan. Not Korea or China and no they are not the same nor do they speak the same language or know how to read each others languages. He also does not need to hear that you would never ever eat that raw fish they eat over there or how much you like Chinese food.

4) Not everyone in Chicago is a liberal and voting for Obama and/or owning a Prius also does not mean you are a liberal. Also I do think being progressive does mean accepting that not everyone shares the same views and thankfully we live in a great nation where we can express those views (aside from those horrible vans with dead babies on them that someone else mentioned). It doesn't automatically make someone a bad person because they are liberal and anyway shouldn't we get over all these labels and start working together. What good do they do but cause hate and division. I guess I am a bit surprised by some of the extremely anti liberal talk I've observed especially being in a college town.

5) Having a college degree and working in Chicago does not mean we are wealthy or things are handed to us....My dad was a steel mill worker (back when it was Inland Steel) and I worked full time and went to school at night to get my degree. Nothing was handed to me. We worked and continue to work (when we aren't laid off that is) for everything that we have and no we did not forgo having children to pursue careers. A couple of times now we have had people say ....you went to college didn't you.... in an accusatory manner which I find odd since as I mentioned we live in a college town and Notre Dame is an hour away.

6) Is it just me or do people drive really really fast?

7) and most importantly...no alcohol sales on Sundays....this one hurts cuz this city girl loves to have a beer sitting on my deck enjoying my peaceful surroundings.

**I do wish we had more jobs for college degreed individuals because I would love to stop this maddening commute into Chicago every day.

But....

I love that people in my area seem to be very aware of nature and want to take care of it. I also love all the birds and now find absolute enjoyment in feeding and watching them and this was mostly learned from my neighbors. I think its great that all the grocery stores and hardware stores carry bird feeders and food and the clerks know all about them and which feeders and food I need (and the fact that there are actually clerks who will not only help me but seem to want to). I also appreciate that my neighbor told us that those purple flowers we found so pretty are actually a weed called creeping charlie which neither of us had ever heard of and probably would have taken over our entire yard had we not be warned. I love that its peaceful where we live and kids can ride their bikes in the street and people wave to us when they drive by even though we do not know them. I love that we do not hear constant sirens and horns honking. I really love that we have deer in our backyard all the time even though it drives my dog insane. I love that people take pride in having the Indiana Dunes and it seems everyone we know takes advantage of the trails. I love that we don't have rats scattering all over everytime we go into our backyard (I'll take the racoons, deer and groundhogs over giant city rats any day). I love that everytime my husband is off work and at home for the day he calls to tell me how much he loves it there.

Sorry for rambling. I guess I am trying to say that I find some people regressive and backwards but not most and not really in a bad way (so far) however I believe you can find these people anywhere, including Chicago. Oh ya and I lived in Bucktown in Chicago which is an area with quite a bit of money yet we still did not have a recycling program when I moved a year ago and Valparaiso not only has a great recycling program but I'm told they will also pick up leaves and sticks and give compost for free. Now thats progressive in my book.

Also...after seeing all those photos in the sticky Indiana photo link I can not wait to do some exploring in the rest of Indiana. Even though I grew up here I had no idea these places exist. We try very hard to keep our hard earned money in our new home state!