Is Mitch your man? (vehicles, pay, single)

[domergurl]

Originally Posted by DC 38

It should be noted that the state is re-embursing the private company because INDOT (presumably) asked them to wave tolls to allieviate traffic due to the closure of 80/94. Sure, the company could have been more helpful, but I think that the state re-imbursing them for taking away their revenue stream is reasonable. It should be noted that travel is down this year due in part to high gas prices, and the private company is not bringing in the revenue it had hoped from the lease. We, the taxpayer, are not on the hook for that loss of revenue. I lost the link, I will try to dig it up later; and I may have exhausted my knowledge and interest on the issue.

So the free market shouldn't abide with this privately held consortium??? I suppose you like this mortgage bailout too.

[Toxic Toast]

Originally Posted by domergurl

So the free market shouldn't abide with this privately held consortium??? I suppose you like this mortgage bailout too.

No, I think the bailout is a terrible idea.

As far as the free market, I suppose we could have just not made the consortium wave the tolls, and not tried to relieve the traffic nightmare I am told was playing out. Unless I am misunderstanding your point.

I'll edit one more time to explain why I think compensating the toll road folks is reasonable. Let's say you have a grocery store in a little town, lets say Gnaw Bone, IN. Gnaw Bone has two grocery stores, a Kroger and a Marsh. Now, a tornado comes through and levels half the town, including the Marsh. This leaves Kroger all alone to sell supplies to the ravaged town. The tornado also destroyed the water pumps and power is out. Now, Kroger may voluntarily give out some supplies as a PR move, but lets say for the sake of hypotheticals, they don't. The state steps in and says to Kroger, "We have a disaster on our hands, please suspend the sale of some of your essential items to help out the folks in this town." The state has stepped in and requested Kroger give up its revenue for the sake of helping poor Gnaw Bone. In this situation, it is perfectly reasonable in my mind to compensate Kroger for their lost revenue. Now, if Kroger volunterrily waived the price of supplies it would be different. The distinction is that the state stepped in and asked Kroger to help.

The distinction between this and the mortgage bailout is that the bailout is for poorly run companies who worked them selves into a corner. The toll road is not being bailed out because the operators mismanaged the road, it is being compensated for helping out by giving up its revenue in a disaster.

[domergurl]

Originally Posted by DC 38

No, I think the bailout is a terrible idea.

As far as the free market, I suppose we could have just not made the consortium wave the tolls, and not tried to relieve the traffic nightmare I am told was playing out. Unless I am misunderstanding your point.

I'll edit one more time to explain why I think compensating the toll road folks is reasonable. Let's say you have a grocery store in a little town, lets say Gnaw Bone, IN. Gnaw Bone has two grocery stores, a Kroger and a Marsh. Now, a tornado comes through and levels half the town, including the Marsh. This leaves Kroger all alone to sell supplies to the ravaged town. The tornado also destroyed the water pumps and power is out. Now, Kroger may voluntarily give out some supplies as a PR move, but lets say for the sake of hypotheticals, they don't. The state steps in and says to Kroger, "We have a disaster on our hands, please suspend the sale of some of your essential items to help out the folks in this town." The state has stepped in and requested Kroger give up its revenue for the sake of helping poor Gnaw Bone. In this situation, it is perfectly reasonable in my mind to compensate Kroger for their lost revenue. Now, if Kroger volunterrily waived the price of supplies it would be different. The distinction is that the state stepped in and asked Kroger to help.

The distinction between this and the mortgage bailout is that the bailout is for poorly run companies who worked them selves into a corner. The toll road is not being bailed out because the operators mismanaged the road, it is being compensated for helping out by giving up its revenue in a disaster.

Kroger would help out as PR move solely ... they are a capitalist company. The rank and file of Kroger would be really ticked if a government enterprise ordered them to do it. You cannot disagree with me on that .. can you??? For-profit companies are about making a profit. Their altruism extends as far as it will mean more sales in the end. They are hoping to get people to spend more of their money because "they are such a nice company" .. fooey, no such thing, well, except Costco and Trader Joes

I'm sure that there was a clause in the lease dictating that the state will pick up these expenses. Trust me, if it wasn't in writing, it wouldn't have happened. So again, this toll road lease favors the private consortium all the state wanted was that fat paycheck. But again, when you have someone holding a golden carrot, the horse is going to agree to anything right???

[Jaxson]

Whatever happened to we the people being responsible for ourselves? If a flood or tornado came through we all have to adjust our normal routines. People that needed to use the flooded roads had to seek an alternative route to get to their point B yes? Does that mean every mom and pop store along the alternate route should have opened their doors for free food or gas "hoping" the govie will reimburse them? NO! If people in those areas knew they would be facing long traffic lines then let them leave earlier from their point A's! In your scenario DC 38 you left out the option for Kroger to be a good neighbor by selling needed perishable items at their cost but not a total loss/waste because of no power. Kroger or the towns people should not rely on govie to step in unless there is price gouging, raiding and all out thugging! Here again there are many facets of doing business that either return as gains or losses those are the chances/risks any of us take in any part of life!

Mitch should not have refunded an out of country business (or any business) that came in to buy something that many Indiana lives paid into when he did not ask us if it was OK in the first place! Do you think this out of country company is going to give back to Indiana from their profits they will one day make on this toll road? Of course they are not so they better stick their hands back in their pockets and ride the wave that is upon them!

DC 38 you think the national bail out is a bad idea, I do agree with you, so is what my man mitch is doing in our state privitizing then keeping his hand on the profits or outcome in them! As far as I am concerned when mitch sold the toll road we the people of Indiana were off the hook for expenses of it for 75 years period. This is why our whole country is in the mess we are in because everybody thinks they can take risks and govie will bail them out. Guess what folks? Our USA govie is worse than flat broke.

DC 38 I am not trying to argue with you, glad you have shared your opinion, only enlighten you to see the whole picture, mitch selling this toll road is just one part of him selling off our entire state to out of country buyers. This type of thing is not just happening in Indiana it is happening all across America people. Wake up please before we wake up no longer citizens of the United States of America. By keeping your local and your state official accountable it will catch up at the national levels one day! Hopefully sooner than later.

[Toxic Toast]

I was just using Kroger to paint a hypothetical. Obviously, in the real world Kroger is going to help out, there are not a lot of businesses off the top of my head I can use to make a comparitive illustration.

I also just said that it was "reasonable" that the state refunded the toll road company, I never said I thought they "should."

Originally Posted by Jaxson

If a flood or tornado came through we all have to adjust our normal routines. People that needed to use the flooded roads had to seek an alternative route to get to their point B yes? Does that mean every mom and pop store along the alternate route should have opened their doors for free food or gas "hoping" the govie will reimburse them? NO! If people in those areas knew they would be facing long traffic lines then let them leave earlier from their point A's!

I would think that in this situation, with flooded roads and people's houses under water, opening the toll road up is a good thing. When you have mile long back ups, leaving earlier is not really as simple as it sounds.

Originally Posted by Jaxson

DC 38 you think the national bail out is a bad idea, I do agree with you, so is what my man mitch is doing in our state privitizing then keeping his hand on the profits or outcome in them! As far as I am concerned when mitch sold the toll road we the people of Indiana were off the hook for expenses of it for 75 years period.

I do think that these are very different circumstances in nature, but I get what you are saying.

Originally Posted by Jaxson

DC 38 I am not trying to argue with you, glad you have shared your opinion, only enlighten you to see the whole picture, mitch selling this toll road is just one part of him selling off our entire state to out of country buyers. This type of thing is not just happening in Indiana it is happening all across America people. Wake up please before we wake up no longer citizens of the United States of America. By keeping your local and your state official accountable it will catch up at the national levels one day! Hopefully sooner than later.

I don't neccessarily think you or domergurl are targeting me, no one else has jumped in yet, and it is fun debating things with people as long as it doesn't become an angry screaming match. Having said that, I don't have a problem with the toll road lease. Leasing prisons, now that is something I am opposed to. Bringing in prisoners from out of state to make more money, I am opposed to that. I also think your doomsday scenario is a bit of a stretch.

[nmnita]

Originally Posted by grmasterb

Nita, what are you doing trolling the NW Indiana forum?? I thought NWA was your turf!!

You have to understand Indiana politics to understand that comment. NW Indiana is seen by many as a unique region of the state with more ties to Chicagoland than the rest of the state. Lake County in particular has typically been run by a Democratic machine. Mitch is an Indy guy and a Republican.

For the record, Mitch is my man. Some might find it confusing, on the other hand, that I'll likely be pulling the lever for Obama as well.

it is, but I happen to like Mitch and saw the question? I will go back to my cave and cry....

yea, I do know the area is closer to the Chicago scene than most of IN.

[Naptowner]

For decades, the rest of the state was subsidizing northern Indiana commuters as toll rates were kept below market value, and the road lost money year after year. The money the state made in the lease of the toll road was so far beyond the independent projections of the value of the lease the deal was truly a windfall for the state. I realize those who have seen their toll rates increase are hit harder by this, but overall the lease was a great deal for the state.

And I think you're missing the point that if the state controlled the toll road, it still would have lost revenue from waiving tolls.

[domergurl]

Originally Posted by Naptowner

For decades, the rest of the state was subsidizing northern Indiana commuters as toll rates were kept below market value, and the road lost money year after year. The money the state made in the lease of the toll road was so far beyond the independent projections of the value of the lease the deal was truly a windfall for the state. I realize those who have seen their toll rates increase are hit harder by this, but overall the lease was a great deal for the state.

And I think you're missing the point that if the state controlled the toll road, it still would have lost revenue from waiving tolls.

See .. this is perfect example, and I'm not singleing you out nap (you speak like a majority of this state, which is why this lease was favored). The Indiana Toll Road is used by the few, the majority of this state did not see it, did not use it, therefore, whatever Indy dictated, the rest of the state said "yes!". It just further divided this state. I wish they would make 465 a tollroad! Private or public, just toll the dang thing, then you'd see the whirling dirvishes come out of the woodwork and northern Indiana would get a good laugh!

[grmasterb]

Originally Posted by nmnita

it is, but I happen to like Mitch and saw the question? I will go back to my cave and cry....

yea, I do know the area is closer to the Chicago scene than most of IN.

Just jerking your chain. Please visit anytime.

[grmasterb]

Once again, I must point out that the toll road was not sold, it was leased. Do we not understand the difference??

And those who want to pay the old tolls only have to get an I-Zoom transponder. Illinois operates the same way.