Weiss Homes (Osceola: brokers, buying a home, buying)

[XrayEyes]

SBIBuilder,

You are right. It is unfortunate that experiences like mine taint the industry. I have several friends who are builders and experience the same frustration.

Notwithstanding those who would bash a contractor out of selfishness or plain meanness, I hope you would place the blame for this frustration primarily on the unprofessional "associates" rather than those of us who speak out about them.

Please keep up your good work; hopefully your next generation will do the same. The best way to fight the tainted industry is to keep the good ones and blow the whistle on the bad ones!

One way to tell who the bad ones are is by talking to those who have bought their homes, such as I have done with Weiss Homes. So far, no one, and I mean NO ONE, has been positive toward them.

Domergurl, while this is fact and not document, I have those too...they will no longer be able to INSULATE themselves against the hundreds of contracts they have FALLEN SHORT on.

[SBIBuilder]

What an active board! This is a neat forum for discussion. Yes, XRay, I find fault with my "peers", not their unsatisfied clientele. Shoddy workmanship results in some people really thinking that the homes built 100 years ago were more structurally sound and dependable (they are not, when modern building practices are utilized correctly), as one poster said earlier in this thread.

[domergurl]

X ... please don't take my caution as your being stifled. We had a big blow up over a builder that put us in a libelous situation and I let it get out of hand. I'd rather be cautious from the get go.

I have former neighbors who had a horrible horrible horrible experience with Weis, so I am somewhat familiar with their shoddy work.

Again ... not trying to stifle.

[West coast at heart]

Originally Posted by I-miss-Ind

The biggest problem I see with that is that most track builders (in many cases) do not even have a buyer at the start of construction and may not have one until it is nearly finished or completed. This prevents the potential home buyer from being involved in the process. At the most a buyer is involved in upgrades they want after the fact. Several of my neighbors and people I know and even some friends are in the construction/remodeling business and they will tell me that in general the customer has no idea what they are looking at when it comes to the actual work being performed. Although there are many good and honest contractors out there, there are still many individuals that take advantage of this which in turn leaves a dark shadow over those that want and do the job correctly. And as you stated sometimes it is the subcontractors that are the worse at this knowing that the general contractor is stretched to thin to be involved in every aspect of the job at hand. Unfortunatly this is usually caused trying to make the money when the market is there and many good contractors lose sight in how they got to where they are today, with good quality and service. It is sometimes hard to blame someone for making money when the opprotunity presents itself knowing how the economy has been over the last couple of decades with all the ups and downs.

It is also the responsibility of the buyer to educate themselves as much as possible before they make the largest single purchase of their lives in most cases. That is a problem these days, when most people want something they don't take the time to educate themselves first all they know is that they want it now so when problems arise they feel the need to place blame on everyone else but themselves.

You are correct about the buyer not being involved in houses already built. That is why (which I did not state) I would only buy a new house if I could be involved from the start. I also stated that the buyer should ask questions about any and everything they do not understand. There are so many sources of knowledge that one could find answers to almost every question possible. Of course I am a researcher. I love to ask questions so I know what I am getting. (We agree on this for sure )

You are correct about the making the buck when and where one can. A quality builder I mentioned before, went out of business for many reasons. One of which was not getting paid. That is a whole other story though. There are some excellent builders out there. One gets what one pays for though. A quality house is not cheap. A builder who builds the most houses is not necessary the best builder.

Have peace I miss IND,

wc@h

[SBNflyer]

I just saw this post and thought I should reply and say that we have had three homes built by Weiss Homes over the past decade or so and have always had a good experience. I don't know what went wrong with the other posters, but that is not the experience of my neighbors and myself.

Not that everything was perfect, but we didn't expect perfection. We expected that if something wasn't right, then it would be made right and it was. We had an issue after we moved in, after hours one day and called the emergency pager number and it was handled really well. The guy who answered the pager sent out a subcontractor right away and called to check to be sure that the subcontractor actually came out.

We can't afford a custom home, so I know we will build with them again in the future. I liked how they had selections in one place and the upgrades were already priced, so we knew that we didn't pay more than our neighbor for the same thing.

EK

[XrayEyes]

Originally Posted by SBNflyer

I just saw this post and thought I should reply and say that we have had three homes built by Weiss Homes over the past decade or so and have always had a good experience. I don't know what went wrong with the other posters, but that is not the experience of my neighbors and myself.
EK

3 houses built in ten years! Amazing! If not unbelievable.

You may have been INSULATED from a list of grievances as many (I didn't say all) seem to have encountered. However, I bet you you were NOT INSULATED SUFFICIENTLY from what hundreds may soon discover. I make no promises, mind you, but LOOK AT YOUR CONTRACT.

[Debrao]

I called and e-mailed my construction manager @ Weiss, he met me on site with a stack of spec. telling me he me the spec of the joist builder when making many large hole in the webs and in the top plate of the joist. I couldn’t believe what he said so I went to GP's web site and down loaded the spec. The manager either couldn't read or was lying. I then took photos of all of my concerns and sent a CD to David Weiss and the building inspector. Weiss has hired an engineer to inspect and recommend repairs, he will reinsert after repair are made. If I didn’t go through the work of first inspecting then meeting with Weiss, then looking for the specs reviewing them and going back to the site taking photos of my concerns, then making CDs of the problems this would of all been swept under the rug. Should any one have to go through all of this when having a home built? I don’t think so!

[West coast at heart]

Originally Posted by XrayEyes

3 houses built in ten years! Amazing! If not unbelievable.

You may have been INSULATED from a list of grievances as many (I didn't say all) seem to have encountered. However, I bet you you were NOT INSULATED SUFFICIENTLY from what hundreds may soon discover. I make no promises, mind you, but LOOK AT YOUR CONTRACT.

Hi xray eyes. You have eluded to insulation problems several times. Just out of curiosity, what problems did you run into ? I am sure others would be interested as well.
Thanks for the inSIGHT xray eyes!

[XrayEyes]

Here's the deal with insulation. I am going to explain first what has been done in my house and then share what I have found recently.

I have a half built house. It has been that way since December 2007 when Weiss ceased construction. (It is a little complicated, but a trial is set in berrien County for May 19 this year.) My contract says I will have 2x4 wall construction with R13 batt. It goes on to describe the rest of the wall construction including 1/2" styrofoam sheathing. Finally, it promises I will have exterior walls with R19. I do not.

In fact, I am led to believe no one in the last 10 years has R19 exterior walls. Yes, I know this could be 1500 homes. follow me here.

I have knocked on a few doors and met some other Weiss owners. I saw their contracts and their homes. The basic clause in the Weiss contract appears not to have changed since at least 1998; they all promised R19 exterior walls. They all used 2x4 construction, R13 batt insulation and 1/2" styrofoam sheathing. at best these homes probably have R16. The FTC R-value rule (which does apply to new home builders) says a 10% difference is significant. End of story.

The media is interested in this obviously, but I could use some help. So far, no one I spoke with is very happy with Weiss but I am looking for homeowners who (1) want to consider class action and (2) may be willing to share their home. (brotherskeeper12@yahoo.com)

I cannot comment on SBNflyer. maybe he is a friendly or an employee. Maybe he is authentic. I do not claim Weiss has no happy customers, even if they may be unaware of a breach of contract.

The are several very interesting issues in my case that may apply to others in addition to insulation. For instance, Their Michigan license status is being challenged as well as the licensing of salespeople. In Michigan, a builder's salesperson must be licensed under the builder code (real estate broker code is altogether different). It looks like Weiss has NO builder salesperson licenses. There is a hearing April 13 on these issues. Public is welcome.

[XrayEyes]

I should mention statute of limitations is 6 years in MI and 10 years in IN. I am not sure if this can begin at the point of awareness or if the strict contract date (or completion date) is to be used. If it is the move in date then there are still a number of affected people that could seek damages.

I have been told it could cost $10,000-$12,000 per house just to install additional styorofoam sheathing (R&R the vinyl siding). Also consider the additional savings on utilities. If this shoe fits you have paid too much. Some people feel their utilities are good, but should they have been better??