Terre Haute (Indianapolis, Fort Wayne, Evansville: sales, motel, buying a home)

[WILWRadio]

I'm looking for feedback on Terre Haute.

I am interested in possibly relocating to Terre Haute and I want to get some input from anyone that is more familiar with this city than I. I'd like to add that I am going to lack brevity with this post and I am going to go into some detail and be thorough about what I like and don't like in a community with the hope that I can avoid making another mistake when I am ready to move from my current home. I have read all of the posts about Terre Haute here and please forgive me if I rehash a subject that has already been covered.

First some background. I've never really considered living in Terre Haute until now. Previously, I have visited TH probably more than a dozen times. Most visits consisted of a night at a local motel and eating at a local restaurant, getting gasoline or stopping at Sam's Club. The bad smell some people speak of I've never experienced. We won't go there. I have a friend that graduated from Purdue and he's never said anything truly bad about the place. Currently my older brother lives in Indy with his wife and they seem content there but neither has any knowledge of TH.

Presently I live in Kansas City and I really don't like it all that much. I'd like to avoid staying here if at all possible. I've found that the KC metro area has a very trashy lifestyle culture regardless of the socio-economic background of most of the people I rub elbows with here. Someone mentioned in an earlier post that he'd never seen so many thieving people in a community before as he's seen in TH. I suggest he visit the KC metro area. There are more lying, thieving, backstabbing jerks here than any other place I've lived. I lived in Indianapolis for six months in the mid 1990's and it was nowhere near as bad as KC at least as far as issues with people are concerned. I've had a lot less problems with the people over the years in IN. I also don't like the over bearing, self absorbed, self indulgent behavior of most of the people in KC. And the ignorance, pretentiousness, paranoia and shallowness that many of these people display is also alarming. Most seem to be real mental cases with many sociopaths mixed in. I've lived in ten states and this is the only place I've lived that women have told me they don't want to date me when I am not even asking them out. In fact, I never even wanted to date any of these women because I was simply planning on passing through and relocating to a more suitable place. Unfortunately I've been here about three years longer than I had hoped.

I'm a native of an upper middle class and wealthy community in the Hartford, CT area and I've found that people in the KC area have issues with people that hail from east of the Mississippi. Over the years I've heard many of them take cracks at Indiana and OH along with NY. Some of these idiots called me a NYer when I am actually from New England. I don't judge people by their social stratus in life and I rub elbows with people that are quite wealthy as well as those of modest lower middle class backgrounds. I can also agree to disagree with most people on most political and social issues. However, I do judge people by their values and behavior. Most of the people in KC get a failing grade here. I am socially and politically Conservative (Barry Goldwater and Ronald Reagan style, not Bush or the current crop of phonies in DC) and this seems to clash with the overly left leaning, California style culture in the Kansas City area. I hope TH is a bit more moderate or leans to the right. Essentially, even though I am not that old I share the same values as my Grandparents generation who were born 100 years ago.

I could transfer with my company to Indy but I am a bit uncertain about whether or not I want to live in another million plus metro area again and whether or not I can find the right kind of community within a 40 to 50 mile radius of Indy for the small business I have in mind. More on this in a bit...

I have some other communities that I am considering in the northeast part of the country but thanks to the problems with the auto industry, I am not too sure that a move to any of these places would be wise. All either have auto plants or suppliers in the area and they could easily lose thousands of jobs if just one, let alone all three of the Big 3 go under.

Here's what I have in mind and I'd like to know whether or not something like this can fly and whether or not I can make it work. Initially, I will have to find some kind of full time employment. I realize the economy is weak and that job opportunities in a place like TH are limited. I'd work in food or retail if necessary though something like a Call Center would be preferable as long as it is not a telemarketing position. In my spare time I intend to start up a small community oriented AM radio station. The broadcast radius will be limited to a couple of miles and I will probably need more than one transmitter to reach a good portion of TH with a listenable signal. I'd have to rely upon volunteers to staff the station (easily found in states like NY and PA and OH) but I am uncertain about whether or not I can find any interns that might want to learn the art of radio. Eventually with the connections I have I might be able to introduce some of the interns to a station that offers a paying job, when hiring in the radio industry resumes. My flea powered radio station would offer a Full Service format with an Adult Contemporary Oldies music format (mid 1960's to 1990) along with local news, weather, sports reports, some talk and information. Nothing like this currently exists in TH and I've found the AM dial in town only has a sports station and religion. I could offer local churches an opportunity to air their weekly services for a modest fee, should they desire. Eventually I'd sell advertising and could probably hire someone to handle sales provided they are willing to work on commission. Rates will be a "dollar a holler" because of the limited range of the station.

There are hundreds, perhaps thousands of these little AM radio stations now on the air all over the country. This is not a FM pirate operation and has the approval of the FCC. Most are non commercial, but a few, like the one I'd like to develop are commercial in nature. Based upon the research I've done I see a void in TH radio and this kind of format might be able to fly there.

I've noticed a preoccupation with tearing down TH on this Forum. I look upon some of this with a jaundiced eye because quite often people that are the harshest critics of a community are those that cannot see the positive aspects that sit right underneath their nose. I do realize that TH has problems just like virtually every other city of this size and scope but it surely is not as bad as some of these posters make it out to be.

Questions:

1) Are the people in TH as brain damaged as the people in the KC region?

2) Will I be able to find some kind of employment in the TH area?

3) Do GM, Ford and Chrysler have any kind of operations or suppliers in the TH area? I know they do in Indy and Indy will get hit hard if they shut down.

4) Does TH have a decent number of Mom and Pop small business or is everything pretty much chain owned?

5) How bad is the corruption at the city and county level?

Right now this is purely speculative and only an information gathering venture for now. But my preliminary research shows enough of the right conditions exist to attempt this kind of business in TH. I guess that covers everything for the moment. I'd like to get your thoughts about any or all topics I've covered including the 5 questions I posed. Thanks!

[javahoe]

I find your concept quite interesting. I feel that radio, along with many aspects of society has truly lost it's regional and local focus the last few years.

While I have no real knowledge of the issues you mention in regards to Kansas City, I can understand your apprehension of trying this in a large metro. It does seem however, there are markets much larger than Terre Haute that are void of real local broadcasting that would be more profitable.

I have lived in both Ft. Wayne and Evansville. I have bought advertising in both in the past and if memory serves me correctly, Evansville is the 97th largest media market and Ft. Wayne is the 100th. In addition to larger populations, the economies in both cities appear to be much more diverse and stronger than Terre Haute. While Ft. Wayne does have WOWO, or did, it has been awhile, I know Evansville is truly lacking any real local radio. Clear Channel and Regent pretty well have all the stations wrapped up and there is very little locally generated broadcasting.

I am not knocking Terre Haute. I am just wondering what appeals an outsider to there when there are seemingly better markets throughout the midwest.

[Badlands17]

1) There is hardly any consistency to the types of people in the area. Generally though, the natives are pretty friendly to outsiders, and there is a fairly large transplant population, mainly University professors and their families.
2) The jobs that are available tend to be lower-level, but you seem to be okay with that. Terre Haute, IN - May 2007 OES Metropolitan and Nonmetropolitan Area Occupational Employment and Wage Estimates (employment info for TH)
3) TH might have had auto parts manufacturing at one time, but not currently. Retail, the colleges, and plastics probably employ the majority of the population.
4) All the chains have set up shop on the south side, so save that, the majority of restaurants and stores are local.
5) Generally there's anti-incumbent sentiment no matter what job the mayor's doing; no mayor has had a second term since Pete Chalos in the 80s. Our first Republican mayor since the 60s was just ousted from his seat on a technicality raised by the guy he defeated, but he was fairly popular before he got booted and is appealing.

But yeah, our radio landscape is pretty dry. Your only competitor in the market you're trying to reach would probably be WWSY 95.9. Go for it; I would certainly be interested to hear what you do sometime.

[WILWRadio]

Javahoe. My replies are intertwined.

Originally Posted by javahoe

I find your concept quite interesting. I feel that radio, along with many aspects of society has truly lost it's regional and local focus the last few years.

***Correct. Some of us are attempting to correct this problem by creating new legal, low power AM radio stations. It does seem to be working in some markets.

While I have no real knowledge of the issues you mention in regards to Kansas City, I can understand your apprehension of trying this in a large metro. It does seem however, there are markets much larger than Terre Haute that are void of real local broadcasting that would be more profitable.

***The KC region demographic and mindset is all wrong for this kind of venture. What I have in mind is too traditional and while it would work in some of the smaller, rural outlying communities around 40 to 50 miles out of KC, it won't work in the KC metro area.

The concept can work in towns of 2,000 or larger. It all depends upon the programming, the type of market the station is located and the format. Any community that likes and supports locally owned and operated businesses can support this kind of enterprise. I did give the Ft. Wayne area a look but upon learning how many jobs will be lost if the automakers file for bankruptcy or go under has been enough to deter me from moving there.

I have lived in both Ft. Wayne and Evansville. I have bought advertising in both in the past and if memory serves me correctly, Evansville is the 97th largest media market and Ft. Wayne is the 100th. In addition to larger populations, the economies in both cities appear to be much more diverse and stronger than Terre Haute. While Ft. Wayne does have WOWO, or did, it has been awhile, I know Evansville is truly lacking any real local radio. Clear Channel and Regent pretty well have all the stations wrapped up and there is very little locally generated broadcasting.

***When I was in Kentucky I had people tell me to avoid southern IN. Central and northern IN seem OK to me though. I also prefer a cooler climate and the Evansville area will probably start to approach the climate in KC minus the 100 degree days here.

I am not knocking Terre Haute. I am just wondering what appeals an outsider to there when there are seemingly better markets throughout the midwest.

***What may be perceived as a better market to one, may not be to another. I'd agree that Fort Wayne or one of its surrounding communities would be a better choice but as outlined, I would be foolish to attempt this venture in an area that is about to lose a ton of jobs. TH has seen better days but it also has nowhere to go but up. If someone is not willing to invest in it to help bring it along then it will never move forward. Granted, what I plan to do will have little economic impact other than create a sales job and also offer very affordable advertising to businesses that cannot afford to buy time with the local newspaper or large radio and television stations. We may be able to help them grow their businesses. The radio station will act as a "mouthpiece" that will promote all that is good in the TH area. And travelers that happen to tune into the station can perhaps catch some ideas about what to do if they are spending a day or two in the area if I create a Community Calendar that outlines area events and attractions.

Based upon my past experiences in Indiana I think I'll be more welcome there than here in the KC area. People there seem more down to earth in contrast to the pretentious, uppity white trash that thinks its upper class here in the KC area. Most of the jerks I run into in KC would be laughed at or looked down upon to a degree by my family and social circle simply because their rude behavior and lack of basic decent values is so disturbing. In contrast, a well mannered, honest lower middle income individual that does not put on airs would be accepted by my family and friends.

Thanks to the problems with the Big 3 I can probably write off the other couple of communities that I wanted to move to in the Northeast. One might still work but until I know where the economy is going and how it will impact that area I hesitate to make a move. It appears as though TH cannot fall much further and will likely hold its own better than a lot of places simply due to the low cost of housing and living and doing business. ISU will help keep money coming into town and businesses that surround the campus will survive. The Call Center just created over 400 jobs and is continuing its expansion. I see those as positive signs in an economy that is headed down an abyss.

[WILWRadio]

Badlands17. Thanks for the helpful info.

Yes, the fact that you have a university is appealing because I know I won't be the only outsider in the area. It may also be a good source of interns as there are far more people interested in getting into radio than there are available jobs or internships. In fact, in one community in NY state where there is a university of similar size, I found one recent college graduate willing to volunteer full time at my station.

I don't mind taking a low paying job because when I move, I'll be buying a home for cash and won't have a mortgage. I also plan to erase all of my debt minus perhaps my car payment. This will allow me to live on less money than I do currently. It will allow me to build the business on the side not having to rely upon a steady part time job to simply help make ends meet.

It sounds like the downtown area or just north of there is the place to set up shop then. Chains businesses are not likely to advertise on the station unless they are really involved in the community or are franchisee owned.

Originally Posted by Badlands17

1) There is hardly any consistency to the types of people in the area. Generally though, the natives are pretty friendly to outsiders, and there is a fairly large transplant population, mainly University professors and their families.
2) The jobs that are available tend to be lower-level, but you seem to be okay with that. Terre Haute, IN - May 2007 OES Metropolitan and Nonmetropolitan Area Occupational Employment and Wage Estimates (employment info for TH)
3) TH might have had auto parts manufacturing at one time, but not currently. Retail, the colleges, and plastics probably employ the majority of the population.
4) All the chains have set up shop on the south side, so save that, the majority of restaurants and stores are local.
5) Generally there's anti-incumbent sentiment no matter what job the mayor's doing; no mayor has had a second term since Pete Chalos in the 80s. Our first Republican mayor since the 60s was just ousted from his seat on a technicality raised by the guy he defeated, but he was fairly popular before he got booted and is appealing.

But yeah, our radio landscape is pretty dry. Your only competitor in the market you're trying to reach would probably be WWSY 95.9. Go for it; I would certainly be interested to hear what you do sometime.