Indiana Toll Road Lease (move, good, native)

[Awkward]

Originally Posted by domergurl

I don't know ... nobody will ever know.

Weird, I'm pretty sure LOTS of people know that the answer to that question is YES, absolutely -- the goal of any toll road is actually open-road tolling... electronic tolling is simply the first step to get there.

What you don't seem to understand is that the toll road was not a profitable asset for the state. In its first 50 years of operation, the road returned less than $120 million to the State for INDOT projects. All the while, the road was still carrying a bond debt of nearly $250 MILLION, which was not even near being paid off when the state ran the road.

In the first 3 years of the lease, however, Indiana has received more than $350 million in interest stemming from the lease proceeds. Do the math - Indiana got more in interest from the lease than they made on the road in 50 YEARS!

[Awkward]

Now, the issue prior to the lease, which was the problem to begin with, was that the road was state-run. It was run by greedy politicians in the Toll Road counties who refused to allow toll increases because their constituents would be angry. So, the road continued to make little to no profits. If you ever read the news 5-7 years ago or so, INDOT began promising then that electronic tolling was to be implemented on the Toll Road. Guess what, your friendly politicians again kept Indiana in the Dark Ages when it came to technology. My point is, INDOT had plans to do everything that the new company is doing, they just couldn't get their members to sign on because the politicians were afraid they wouldn't get re-elected if rates went up on the road. Bottom line.

[domergurl]

no, I get it .. the toll road is allllllllllll about forcing people to purchase and keep money on transponders and bottom line moneymaking. Who cares about jobs for hoosiers? Who cares that the money is going to a private company that doesn't benefit this state, yet we ARE STILL in a financial pickle ... all we heard about was ohhhhhhhhhh look at alllllllllllll these billions of dollars ... yea? where are they? our schools have no money ... the alternative roads in northern indiana are crumbling because truckers don't want to use the toll road because the tolls have gotten more and more expensive ... the conversion of US31 ... hello? I-69???? yo!

if you want to bottom line it by saying that the toll road was never profitable before, fine, but at least if the toll road DID make some money in the past, the state benefited, not CM.

And then what happens if CM decides to sell it off because it's not as profitable as they thought it would be, what happens if CM goes belly up ... at least with the road being in state control ... those issues would never pop up.

jury is still out on the toll road lease .. we're only 4 years in, but I know that my folks and my in-laws who actually live up there don't like the raised tolls and the forcing of buying a transponder so the company doesn't have to have as many workers, yet they still keep raising tolls .... oh well, if the almighty dollar for a private company is the goal .. well, BINGO! The only thing I can say at this point ... the short term cash grab is about the only benefit.

and to be completely partisan ... I'm just reading this for information because the arguments on here need to be balanced:
http://www.alltolled.com/

and this is just lovely, but again, folks down here don't need to worry folks up in the north who actually are feeling this part of the lease agreement:

Indiana is prevented
from building a four-lane, divided highway
more than 20 miles long (or expanding a
current highway to Interstate standards)
within 10 miles of the East-West Toll
Road for at least 55 years without providing
compensation to the toll road operator for
lost revenue.

http://cdn.publicinterestnetwork.org...blic-Costs.pdf

so far, the big winners in the toll road lease have been Goldman Sachs ... $20 million skim off the top for advising!

[grmasterb]

Originally Posted by domergurl

And then what happens if CM decides to sell it off because it's not as profitable as they thought it would be, what happens if CM goes belly up ... at least with the road being in state control ... those issues would never pop up.

1. CM can't sell the road, because it doesn't own it.
2. If CM goes belly up, the state resumes control of the road and keeps the money it was given up front.

Truckers are not taking side roads to avoid the Toll Road's "higher" tolls. First, as I've stated several times previously, you pay the lower tolls by using a transponder. And as the transponder can be used in several states, including IL, undoubtedly many truckers are already supplied with one. I challenge you to show me empirical data to back up your claim.

As for side roads crumbling, that was happening way before the Toll Road lease.

You also continue to compare apples to oranges with your comment about schools lacking money. The money the state received from the lease was always earmarked for roads. Monies not already spent are in a road trust fund, earning interest.

Had the state maintained control of the Toll Road, it would've eventually been forced to jack up tolls in order to pay for maintenance and implementation of electronic tolling.

Finally, I'm not going to cry one bit for those "forced" to maintain money in accounts for transponders. When I bought my I-Zoom, I had to initially fund the account with $40. Whenever my balance falls below $10, it draws money automatically from my bank account to bring the balance back up to $10. So, that's how much folks are "forced" to maintain in those accounts - $10. Boo-hoo. But with that transponder I get smooth-sailing on the IN Toll Road, as well as the ones in Chicagoland (the only slowdown there being traffic).

[domergurl]

ok ok .. i'll clarify ... lease, not sale .. yes ... my bad. but the concerns are still there. but again .. you don't have to deal with it. my parents see how bad US20 is getting, you don't.

[wh15395]

All that I know is that when I lived in Fort Wayne, there was no decent way to get to Chicago. U.S. 30 has pot holes everywhere and WAY too many lights, and the toll road is very far out of the way. I was just wondering if anyone else believes that the reason U.S. 30 will never be upgraded to an Interstate is because the toll road will lose money?

[domergurl]

Originally Posted by wh15395

All that I know is that when I lived in Fort Wayne, there was no decent way to get to Chicago. U.S. 30 has pot holes everywhere and WAY too many lights, and the toll road is very far out of the way. I was just wondering if anyone else believes that the reason U.S. 30 will never be upgraded to an Interstate is because the toll road will lose money?

it depends on how far away US30 is from the toll road ... and it also probably stipulates what kinds of improvements can be made. I'd imagine that pot holes can be filled, but extra lanes are probably a no no.

I also have to wonder ... if it's so freaking great, why aren't ALL states gittin' in this biz? Why hasn't Ohio joined in the fun???

[grmasterb]

Originally Posted by domergurl

... you don't have to deal with it....

Sure I do. I drive the Toll Road frequently to get to Chicago.

[grmasterb]

Originally Posted by domergurl

Why hasn't Ohio joined in the fun???

Discussed there, but the candidate who proposed the idea lost the election.

[domergurl]

Originally Posted by grmasterb

Discussed there, but the candidate who proposed the idea lost the election.

bad move ... did mitch campaign on that notion by chance?????

i'm not talking about the toll road ... i'm talking about the state of US20