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Old 08-06-2012, 06:59 PM
 
Location: Turn Left at Greenland
17,764 posts, read 39,717,430 times
Reputation: 8248

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Quote:
Originally Posted by missik999 View Post
we control the state??
I learned a new text term today from my 12 year old:

IKR?

Saying that the City of Indianapolis controls the state of Indiana is rather ... hmmmmm ... autocratic eh? No liberty in autocracy.

I think that one of the nice things about this state is that people tend to live and let live. Of course there are always going to be knuckleheads out there who go to extremes one way or the other, but by and large, our state is made up of everything from "out in the sticks" to smallish urban centers and quaint small towns.

Who cares if we surpass Detroit in population? That's nothing to brag about considering the heck that Detroit has been through in the last decade.

Oooooooo, Indianapolis is bigger than Detroit ... big whoop.
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Old 08-12-2012, 01:04 PM
 
Location: Earth
2,549 posts, read 3,977,685 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicago76 View Post
I know the title says "city". My point is city population isn't terribly important.
False, population within a city's boundary is important when it comes to revenue generated from it's tax base. The larger the population of residents and business there are within it's boundaries the larger the tax base. It's more revenue for the city. Of course, the type of economic policies set in place making a city more business friendly climate without the burdensome of over regulation and taxation makes a huge difference. That's what separates Indy from from a city like Detroit which has a higher unemployment rate. Indy is basically the Charlotte of the Midwest. A city with a brighter future. Suburbs and a city are two different entities when it comes to their own economic affairs. The only thing they have in common is sharing the same metro area. Once again this thread is about the "city" of Indianapolis not "metro". It has nothing to do with Greenwood or Livonia. It's strictly between the city of Indianapolis and Detroit. The discussion about metro is relevant the topic of this thread is about the two cities only.


Quote:
Originally Posted by domergurl View Post
Who cares if we surpass Detroit in population? That's nothing to brag about considering the heck that Detroit has been through in the last decade.

Oooooooo, Indianapolis is bigger than Detroit ... big whoop.
The thought of Indy hitting 1 million does make me curious though about what kind of city it would be in the future. However, rather if it hits 1 or not the quality of life in Indy has greatly improved over the years I lived here. It has come a long way from what it use to be.
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Old 08-13-2012, 12:16 AM
 
1,478 posts, read 2,412,118 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanologist View Post
False, population within a city's boundary is important when it comes to revenue generated from it's tax base. The larger the population of residents and business there are within it's boundaries the larger the tax base. It's more revenue for the city. Of course, the type of economic policies set in place making a city more business friendly climate without the burdensome of over regulation and taxation makes a huge difference. That's what separates Indy from from a city like Detroit which has a higher unemployment rate. Indy is basically the Charlotte of the Midwest. A city with a brighter future. Suburbs and a city are two different entities when it comes to their own economic affairs. The only thing they have in common is sharing the same metro area. Once again this thread is about the "city" of Indianapolis not "metro". It has nothing to do with Greenwood or Livonia. It's strictly between the city of Indianapolis and Detroit. The discussion about metro is relevant the topic of this thread is about the two cities only.
Agree that city size matter in terms of tax base, but you're ignoring the other side: expenditures. All else equal, a larger geographic area also costs more to administer as you annex outlying low density areas (more roads, utilities, etc to maintain per head as density decreases). Regardless, the point of the original post wasn't tax base. it was ego stroking that the city could be forseeably bigger than Detroit at some point. And on that point it fails, because for the last time, if the point of the thread is to look at some magical ranking of municipal population, it is essentially a worthless endeavor. St. Louis city is 1/3 the size of Indy. DC is smaller. San Francisco is roughly the same size. The city of Indianapolis is bigger than the city of Cincinnati. Some day, the city may be bigger than Detroit. And my question is, what is the point/meaning to that?

Theoretically (legal restrictions aside), Ft. Wayne could annex the entire northern half of that state. It would be bigger than Indianapolis. It would have a bigger tax base. It would also have to spend money to maintain all of those roads. On paper, Ft Wayne would be bigger than Indy.

Re: what the city will look like if it hits 1 million. If the city hits 1 million, chances are there will be a ton of development outside of Marion Co as well. More of the wealth will have moved out of Marion co by that point and the city will, inevitably hit a point of stagnation unless inner core neighborhoods are developed to retain more middle and upper middle income types. Good example of this: metro St Louis. St Louis city is 300K. St Louis county (independent from the city) is roughly 1 million. For the longest time, STL county wanted nothing to do with the city. The last census was something of a wakeup call. STL county's population actually dropped a bit. Its population is graying. The percentage of its pop of working age has declined. A lot of middle-upper middle families have moved to the outlying counties. Poverty has increased. The county never saw this coming because they weren't part of the city.

Indy as a consolidated entity in Marion Co is kind of similar. There is a sizable middle class in the outlying townships. Enough to hide the fact that the middle income group has declined as a percent of the total to some extent. The trick will again be to find ways to attract those middle income to the core neighborhood and figure out ways to strengthen neighborhood identity to anchor people better to part of Township X rather than having them pull up stakes to Plainfield, Franklin, Westfield, Fortville, Mooresville, etc as the metro expands. I do think the city will continue to grow more diverse, which I consider to be a good thing. Working class immigrant families can add a lot to a city and can help stabilize neighborhoods and offset some of the migration loss to the outlying counties.
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Old 08-13-2012, 05:27 AM
 
583 posts, read 884,325 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicago76 View Post
The trick will again be to find ways to attract those middle income to the core neighborhood
One day, you're going to have to learn to enter an argument without presuming your terms. Pike Township or Greenwood have as much right to be considered the "core" of Indy as Fountain Square. It's a nebulous term like "Crossroads of America" or "America's Team" that's nothing but presumption and advertising.

Quote:
I do think the city will continue to grow more diverse, which I consider to be a good thing.
If you're talking about the influence of unassimilated foreigners, in every city I see that, it's not a good thing. Lot's of poor manners, bad habits, pushiness, rudeness, retention of native language, indifference and hostility to the supremacy of the native folkways. If they prefer they own country, it welcomes them home. Manners dictate that if they wish to reside in this one, act as us, and soon after the soil of their homeland falls off their shoes.

Quote:
Working class immigrant families can add a lot to a city and can help stabilize neighborhoods and offset some of the migration loss to the outlying counties.
Yeah, that sounds like the propaganda served up in social studies class in an inner-city classroom. We want American cities to be American, not Slavic, Russian, southeast Asian, etc. If the inner city cannot attract Americans, fix or bulldoze the city; don't invite foreigners to whom inferior and dilapidated residential tracts are perfectly acceptable.
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Old 08-13-2012, 08:48 AM
 
3,004 posts, read 5,147,548 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregHenry View Post
One day, you're going to have to learn to enter an argument without presuming your terms. Pike Township or Greenwood have as much right to be considered the "core" of Indy as Fountain Square. It's a nebulous term like "Crossroads of America" or "America's Team" that's nothing but presumption and advertising.
Pike and Greenwood are not Core Indianapolis neighborhoods. Greenwood for starters isn't even Indianapolis, it's not even Marion County.

If the thread was city v city (Indianapolis v Detroit) leave it at that. No need to bring MSA if the topic isn't MSA. Hell to be honest, MSA isn't all that important either. If anything it would be Media Market (what businesses use).
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Old 08-13-2012, 09:24 AM
 
Location: Indianapolis
3,892 posts, read 5,510,017 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msamhunter View Post
Pike and Greenwood are not Core Indianapolis neighborhoods. Greenwood for starters isn't even Indianapolis, it's not even Marion County.

If the thread was city v city (Indianapolis v Detroit) leave it at that. No need to bring MSA if the topic isn't MSA. Hell to be honest, MSA isn't all that important either. If anything it would be Media Market (what businesses use).
Indy has a pretty big Media Market.
you have all of Central Indiana which combined gives Indy a media market thats in the top 25 largest in the country.
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Old 08-14-2012, 09:30 AM
 
Location: Indianapolis
3,892 posts, read 5,510,017 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyHooiser View Post
I think that's wonderful news for my hometown Indianapolis! Hopefully, Indy won't be so underrated all the time. Hosting the Super Bowl was a huge achievement!

By the way, I am not surprised about Detroit. Indy has been one of the few spots in the Midwest that are still growing while Detrot has been declining for awhile.
Speaking of which.
are you going to ever move back to your home town
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Old 08-15-2012, 09:14 AM
 
Location: Washington, DC area
11,108 posts, read 23,871,538 times
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Take any metro area of 1-3 million and expand the city limits of the core city till it reaches 750k to 1 million or more. What changes about that city?

Nothing.

Indy is a fine city, but it's stuff like this that kind of turns people off. The population of Indy is very large, but most people in urban planning know that it's just because of where the city lines are drawn. It does not make Indy "bigger" than San Francisco or Atlanta or Detroit. It just has a city hall overseeing more people and a much higher percent of the metro (including a ton of suburban areas within the city limits).

Indianapolis, Jacksonville, OKC, San Antonio, Louisville, Nashville etc are basically just county governments that get to claim huge city populations. (I know Indy is not a county/city government).

Last edited by kcmo; 08-15-2012 at 09:26 AM..
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Old 08-15-2012, 10:21 AM
 
Location: Englewood, Near Eastside Indy
8,977 posts, read 17,277,221 times
Reputation: 7372
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmo View Post
Take any metro area of 1-3 million and expand the city limits of the core city till it reaches 750k to 1 million or more. What changes about that city?

Nothing.

Indy is a fine city, but it's stuff like this that kind of turns people off. The population of Indy is very large, but most people in urban planning know that it's just because of where the city lines are drawn. It does not make Indy "bigger" than San Francisco or Atlanta or Detroit. It just has a city hall overseeing more people and a much higher percent of the metro (including a ton of suburban areas within the city limits).

Indianapolis, Jacksonville, OKC, San Antonio, Louisville, Nashville etc are basically just county governments that get to claim huge city populations. (I know Indy is not a county/city government).
I think the idea that it "turns people off" is overblown, just like this idea that Indianapolis passing Detroit or being bigger than San Fransisco matters is overblown.

90% of people, on a day to day basis, don't care how big Indianapolis is in relation to San Fransisco. Some people like me acknowledge it as a fact, much in the same way I acknowledge other trivia as fact. Yeah, it is a fact, that doesn't mean it really means much.

Likewise, I don't know anyone outside of the land of the forum who is turned off by Indianapolis swallowing up Marion County. Most people either don't realize it, or don't care.
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Old 08-15-2012, 10:40 AM
 
Location: Washington, DC area
11,108 posts, read 23,871,538 times
Reputation: 6438
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toxic Toast View Post
Likewise, I don't know anyone outside of the land of the forum who is turned off by Indianapolis swallowing up Marion County. Most people either don't realize it, or don't care.
Agreed. But there are people that take that city population number and try to run with it.
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