Does Indianapolis Have A Quality Downtown? (Fort Wayne, South Bend: college, closing, quality of life)

[Broadrippleguy]

Originally Posted by kcmo

Yea, like I said, the location is nice for access to the east coast and other nearby cities. But I would rather live in a city that offers more day to day stuff than a city that offers weekend road trips. Plus KC is closer to Colorado, my personal favorite state.

Tall buildings? KC has building density (at least compared to Indy) and one tall building won't change that, if it did, I would like Oklahoma City now just because they have a giant scraper. Plus KC does have tall buildings, it's not like there are no tall buildings there.

I do like Indy's new airport terminal, KC's is a joke. And you have figured out how to build a convention hotel, something KC has been trying to do for about 20 years.

I don't follow Indy transit, but I would bet Indy will have light rail before KC does even if they are not even studying it right now and even though KC is probably better set up for such a system, at least in the urban core.

ya but another thing that holds KC back is the corruption from the Mayors.
Democrats have been famous for Corruption (Chicago is all i need to say)
Our Mayor is Republican Greg Ballard and he is done a great job to land our city, The Super Bowl. Gen Con Indy for a long time since we just expanded our convention center. New Airport Terminal/Widened lanes on I-465. Brand new 34 Story JW Marriott. Serious talk about Mass Transit.
Educational companies like the American College of Education moving from Chicago to Indy and Project Lead the way leaving NY State and moving to Indy.
Amongst countless other job announcements etc.
hence why Indy's unemployment rate is only 8.2%

Also ill add he talked to Mitch Daniels back in 2008 about capping property taxes and with alot of the state in protesting of that our property taxes are now capped at 1%. Which is good since alot of states right now are raising the values on homes according to the government to get more taxes when the real value is less.

[kcmo]

The state line holds KC back. I think KC would be on par with Denver or Minneapolis today if it were not for the state line.

[Broadrippleguy]

oh and lets not forget Indy is the Capital. Would KC be bigger today if it were the Capital of Missouri?

[kcmo]

Originally Posted by Broadrippleguy

oh and lets not forget Indy is the Capital. Would KC be bigger today if it were the Capital of Missouri?

Well it sure wouldn't hurt. I'm not sure KC needs to be a lot bigger. I mean the area has like 2.2 million (2.5 if you include Lawrence and St Joe) so I think that is enough people to support any attractions, sports etc the city might want.

What the state line does is kill the city's ability to compete as a whole. Metro KC is so busy competing with itself that bringing in companies from Chicago or New York (as you mentioned with Indy) is almost out of the question. It takes everything KCMO has just to fend off its own kansas suburbs from taking every established company they have.

In a city like Indy, you are not only the capital,but most of your suburbs are in the city limits and in one county, you are one city and one metro, period. KC does not act like that.

And that's just at the Metro KC level. KC has even more issues at the state level with both Kansas and Missouri.

Kansas does nothing but take advantage of KCMO, if not actually inflict harm on the city economically by doing everything in their power to poach kcmo companies and lure them to the KS side of the metro while refusing to cooperate on regional issues such as transit and culture. Then you have Missouri which basically ignores KC (and what Kansas does to KCMO). Missouri's number one priority is St Louis, then out-state Missouri, THEN Kansas City. So KCMO gets the shaft from both KS and MO. For that reason, I'm always amazed that KCMO does as well as it does.

So yea I think KC would be a much more progressive city today and probably larger if it were a capital or at least if all the metro were in Missouri. (not kansas because kck, topeka and wichita are not great places, the only decent place in KS is suburban johson county which owes 99% of its success to being able to siphon off kcmo). So the entire metro would need to be in MO because KS has a terrible track record of developing its own progresive and growing cities outside maybe Lawrence, (but how do you screw up a college town?)

Having said all that, I still think KC simply offers more than Indy as a place to live though, but it's not with places like Denver.

[msamhunter]

Originally Posted by kcmo

Indy is not a bad town, I like the city, I just don't think it's up there with KC, just like I don't think KC is up there with places like Denver or Minneapolis or St Louis and I get ripped for saying so in the KC forums. I still like KC, a lot, even if I like Denver or St Louis better. Same with Indy.

While Indy has a MSA population that is close to KC's, I just think KC feels like a much larger city, has a lot more to do and see and is set in more appealing topography (while I do like Indy's location closer to other big cities).

The downtowns of KC and Indy are pretty close now. Ten years ago, I think Indy was much better but KC has closed the gap. But when you throw in all the other things KC offers, I think KC just offers a lot more (arts, sports, amusement parks, entertainment district and especially architecture and general urban fabric.

Indy is more like OKC than KC (but closer to KC because OKC sucks). Indy has a nice compact and vibrant downtown, but most of the rest of the city and metro just don't impress me and the area as a whole offers less amenities than KC.

Indy doesn't really compare to KC when it comes to just urban feel.

Downtown KC Might be closer but as usual Indy is still building and have solid builds going until at least 2015 downtown but we've been through this KCMO, KC doesn't offer anything Indianapolis doesn't and vice versa. Indy has more monuments and KC has more fountains, that's about it. Indy has the larger city, KC has the larger metro and Indy has the larger Media Market and slightly better economy. The only big difference is that Indy offers more sports varieties on a more consistent basis and Indy offers a much better location (an argument you used in quantifying Baltimore over KC in that regard ONLY not too long ago as both cities offer pretty much the same thing as far as amenities). The google project has upped KC in the Technology field as far as jobs but Indy is a top life sciences city so...By next year Indy's GDP will more than likely surpass both Cleveland (105,626) and KC (105,698)) flight coming will finish later.

[Toxic Toast]

See what I mean? In a thread about downtown Indianapolis, we are subjected to a dissertation complete with pictures on why KCMO is superior.

[kcmo]

Well first off I simply enjoy choosing a side and debating cities, so nothing personal.

I'm sure we will never convince each other that one city is better than the other, I'm just voicing my opinions and respect yours.

But to back up my opinions, KC has MLB and with that 80 days of major league baseball. IMO MLB is the most important sport because it truly adds to the quality of life of a city. I simply enjoy going to the ballpark often. I love NFL, but they only play 16 times and there is nothing like catching a MLB game in the summer. KC has NFL, MLB, MLS minor league hockey/indoor soccer/baseball and a racetrack, plus college sports. Indy has more college sports and NBA, but no MLS or MLB. MLB alone is enough to give KC the edge, even if barely.

Location. Baltimore is very near DC, Philly and is close to NYC and many other cities plus the mountains of PA, WV etc and the Atlantic Ocean and a ton of historic sites, amusement parks etc. Baltimore blows away KC and Indy as far as location goes. While I like Indy's proximity to Chicago, Cincy, StL etc, I don't like the area Indy is in. I generally like Missouri better than Indiana, especially Indiana around Indy. KC is close to StL and close enough to Colorado, but I like the setting of KC and western MO, so I give KC the edge there.

And finally, I just think there is more to do in KC as far as things I like to do. I mentioned KC has a decent amusement park, you have to drive to Cincy or something, I personally think KC has better museums and arts venues and I like KC's general aesthetics/architecture better and I like KC's suburbs better.

But Indy is a fine city. I would have no problem living there at all. Just wish you had MLB

[jaxontwinz]

Originally Posted by WILWRadio

Country Club Plaza and Westport are south of Midtown and are not considered part of downtown KC.

Minneapolis

Walker Art Center - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

North Loop, Minneapolis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Warehouse District Business Association - Minneapolis, Minnesota

Minneapolis Shopping: Shopping in Minnesota: Downtown Minneapolis (http://www.minneapolis.org/page/downtown-minneapolis.jsp - broken link)

Denver

LoDo, Denver - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Denver Art Museum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

16th Street Mall - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Denver Center for the Performing Arts - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I know that, it is that one of the other posters said Downtown Indy is better than all those areas combined. I disagree.

I'm familiar with those areas in those cities. I still thing the Plaza blows anything away in Denver and in Minneapolis. And the P and L District is pretty close than to what Denver and Minneapolis have. Walker Art Center is fabulous, so is the Denver Art Museum...and so is the Nelson-Atkins. KC is not better than either of these cities, but it does have some top-notch attractions.

[WILWRadio]

Originally Posted by Toxic Toast

See what I mean? In a thread about downtown Indianapolis, we are subjected to a dissertation complete with pictures on why KCMO is superior.

I've lived in both cities. KC suffers from an inferiority complex. Indy does not. People in Indy seem comfortable with what they are while KC is always trying to prove to the world that it is something it is not. I learned this in 2006 when Hall of Fame QB Len Dawson claimed KC is a "world class city". I nearly bust a gut laughing when I heard that one. Right now there is a TV ad running in KC where the announcer states "Kansas City is no cow town". I agree. It is a large backwater filled with insecure people that seem to have to force their way of life on the rest of us. TT. Your point is further proof of this.

[wh15395]

Originally Posted by kcmo

Well it sure wouldn't hurt. I'm not sure KC needs to be a lot bigger. I mean the area has like 2.2 million (2.5 if you include Lawrence and St Joe) so I think that is enough people to support any attractions, sports etc the city might want.

In a city like Indy, you are not only the capital,but most of your suburbs are in the city limits and in one county, you are one city and one metro, period. KC does not act like that.

And that's just at the Metro KC level. KC has even more issues at the state level with both Kansas and Missouri.

Kansas does nothing but take advantage of KCMO, if not actually inflict harm on the city economically by doing everything in their power to poach kcmo companies and lure them to the KS side of the metro while refusing to cooperate on regional issues such as transit and culture. Then you have Missouri which basically ignores KC (and what Kansas does to KCMO). Missouri's number one priority is St Louis, then out-state Missouri, THEN Kansas City. So KCMO gets the shaft from both KS and MO. For that reason, I'm always amazed that KCMO does as well as it does.

This comment shows how little you truly know about Indianapolis. Hamilton County to the north of Marion County (Indianapolis) is one of the fastest growing counties in the country. It includes the suburbs of Carmel, Fishers, Westfield, and Noblesville. All of these are the upper class suburbs, especially Carmel. The suburban area also extend into Hendricks, Johnson, and Boone counties, which contain the suburbs of Avon, Plainfield, Greenwood, and Zionsville. So all in all, I don't see how the vast majority of metro Indy is contained in Marion County. The metro area is 1.75 million, while Marion County is 900K. That means slightly over 50% of the metro is in Marion county, while the rest live in the suburbs. I'd call that pretty evenly split. I also don't see how KC's suburbs are superior to Indy's. What suburb in KC is better than Carmel (The Urbanophile » Blog Archive » Next American Suburb: Carmel, Indiana) or Zionsville for that matter?

Also, Indiana holds Indianapolis back in many regards too. An example of that would be mass transit. I forgot to mention stupid policies like gun carrying laws, planned parenthood funding, and constitutional gay marriage bans.