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Old 12-31-2011, 07:58 PM
 
Location: Earth
2,204 posts, read 1,299,612 times
Reputation: 953
Quote:
Originally Posted by indy_317 View Post
First you say mass transit is "nothing new," then you go about saying "people of today who haven't lived to experience it like the older generation of Hoosiers did back then."
Sure it's already a fact that rail transit isn't "new" to Indianapolis but it is to the newer generation who (to some not all) need to stop being ignorant about the history of this city. The flood control and rail technology is different than what it was back then so a system can work again. What has already been proven is the higher the cost of fuel goes up the more expensive it will become for each mile traveled through out the city. This is very bad considering the current state of the economy with many people still unemployed. The days of having below $2 a gallon gas are pretty much over. If gas goes up to 5 or 7 dollars a gallon tell me how this will help the average Joe without an alternative.

Also let's say your car breaks down in Indy and you don't know anyone or have enough money to afford taxi trips due to an inefficient bus system. Now tell where your logic is in justifying that. If you have a plan b system in place...guess what less people will not get stranded or lose their job. What a concept.
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Old 01-20-2012, 12:42 PM
 
Location: Fishers, IN
5,637 posts, read 5,987,196 times
Reputation: 2939
Looks like the bill has no chance of passing the House. Back to the drawing board?

Mass transit plan faces likely defeat, bill sponsor says | 2012-01-20 | Indianapolis Business Journal | IBJ.com
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Old 01-20-2012, 02:04 PM
 
865 posts, read 855,919 times
Reputation: 534
Quote:
Originally Posted by grmasterb View Post
Looks like the bill has no chance of passing the House. Back to the drawing board?
Hopefully it does go back to the drawing board. The problem with this plan is that half of the cost (so they say, it could end up being 60%, 70%, who knows) goes for a fixed rail line that can't ever be adjusted. The entire focus is that this is for "the NE corridor." How many people have come to this very forum and asked about moving to Fishers, and they were told, plenty of times, about the rush hour traffic issues?

The problem with this plan is that overall, traffic isn't ban in the area, outside of about four hours, M-F. Even then, four hours might actually be pushing it. The plan needs to get off the fixed rail cheer-leading and re-focus more on express bus service from Fishers, Noblesville, Carmel, Westfield, and Greenwood (maybe even more places). There is absolutely no reason to spend half of the desired tax revenue on a fix rail line just to get Hamiltonians to downtown Indy M-F. That can easily be fixed with nice, express bus service, especially if the monthly rider cost would be say $20.

The fact is, so long as I can get from the east side to Carmel via I-70, then I-465 within 25 mins., give or take depending on the location, outside of the rush hours, we don't have a problem. I know the urban cheerleaders think mass transit is the end all, be all. I myself would like an expanded bus system, and would be willing to pay a tab bit more in taxes to fund such a system. Even then, the only reason I would support this is because the time to plan is now since gas could go up to $6+/gallon in the near future. At that time, I think you will see a lot more people willing to support not just one, but maybe two or three fixed rail lines. Right now isn't the time for the billion dollar train, which won't even be up and running for a decade. Now is the time for express bus service from certain suburban communities, and an expanded IndyGo in the more dense portions of Indy, with a renewed emphasis of just one halfway point stop for every mile (ie: Stop at x, drive 1/2 mile, stop, drive the rest of the mile, stop).

So back to the drawing board, with a plan that doesn't cost so much.
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Old 01-20-2012, 06:51 PM
 
Location: Indianapolis
3,900 posts, read 1,822,396 times
Reputation: 957
Quote:
Originally Posted by indy_317 View Post
Hopefully it does go back to the drawing board. The problem with this plan is that half of the cost (so they say, it could end up being 60%, 70%, who knows) goes for a fixed rail line that can't ever be adjusted. The entire focus is that this is for "the NE corridor." How many people have come to this very forum and asked about moving to Fishers, and they were told, plenty of times, about the rush hour traffic issues?

The problem with this plan is that overall, traffic isn't ban in the area, outside of about four hours, M-F. Even then, four hours might actually be pushing it. The plan needs to get off the fixed rail cheer-leading and re-focus more on express bus service from Fishers, Noblesville, Carmel, Westfield, and Greenwood (maybe even more places). There is absolutely no reason to spend half of the desired tax revenue on a fix rail line just to get Hamiltonians to downtown Indy M-F. That can easily be fixed with nice, express bus service, especially if the monthly rider cost would be say $20.

The fact is, so long as I can get from the east side to Carmel via I-70, then I-465 within 25 mins., give or take depending on the location, outside of the rush hours, we don't have a problem. I know the urban cheerleaders think mass transit is the end all, be all. I myself would like an expanded bus system, and would be willing to pay a tab bit more in taxes to fund such a system. Even then, the only reason I would support this is because the time to plan is now since gas could go up to $6+/gallon in the near future. At that time, I think you will see a lot more people willing to support not just one, but maybe two or three fixed rail lines. Right now isn't the time for the billion dollar train, which won't even be up and running for a decade. Now is the time for express bus service from certain suburban communities, and an expanded IndyGo in the more dense portions of Indy, with a renewed emphasis of just one halfway point stop for every mile (ie: Stop at x, drive 1/2 mile, stop, drive the rest of the mile, stop).

So back to the drawing board, with a plan that doesn't cost so much.
EXACTLY what i would say. Bus NOW Rail LATER.
We need Bus Rapid Transit from the Airport up to Noblesville and we honestly need to expand the bus service but we don't need to as you said blow a Billion on Rail.
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Old 01-20-2012, 10:57 PM
 
Location: Earth
2,204 posts, read 1,299,612 times
Reputation: 953
I think we should focus on what we already had in front of us all along instead of trying to convince the house or senate. We should expand the Clarian system already in place going beyond downtown reaching other neighborhoods in the city. The train cars do already have the capacity and speed to get the job done. Why reinvent the wheel again and wait for eternity. Just extend the existing line. It would be cheaper and already has it's foot in the door. It can be done. The advantage is that a line can be placed anywhere with less restrictions than rail in much less time.

We already have a system in place we just have push for expansion. The expansion was proposed back in 2003 and Clarian Health was for it. I would actually support this.

Last edited by urbanologist; 01-20-2012 at 11:07 PM..
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Old 01-21-2012, 01:24 PM
 
Location: 46201
6,725 posts, read 7,496,988 times
Reputation: 3871
I think we will all be better off if we just accept Indianapolis for what it is, a wonderful mid-sized city that will always be held back by the bumpkins in the rest of Indiana.
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Old 01-21-2012, 02:36 PM
 
865 posts, read 855,919 times
Reputation: 534
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanologist View Post
I think we should focus on what we already had in front of us all along instead of trying to convince the house or senate. We should expand the Clarian system already in place going beyond downtown reaching other neighborhoods in the city. The train cars do already have the capacity and speed to get the job done. The expansion was proposed back in 2003 and Clarian Health was for it. I would actually support this.
You do know that this line is down until early April for a total system overhaul? Also, unless they developed a work around, when the temps got low enough to a certain temperature, the tram couldn't operate. This is kinda thought to still be an issue, hence why they shutdown started this month for the overhaul.

To me, the system is limited in scope. I do think they need to extend it to the new Wishard, and it wouldn't be that hard to do as it stands now. However, I'm not sure where one would extend it to from there. The system is on a fixed track, and it isn't all that fast. Trips have to go the entire length before the trains go back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toxic Toast View Post
I think we will all be better off if we just accept Indianapolis for what it is, a wonderful mid-sized city that will always be held back by the bumpkins in the rest of Indiana.
Well, they didn't hold us back for Lucas Oil Stadium and the expanded Convention Center taxes. If the transit folks were smart, they would scale back this plan to express suburban bus routes. Get all the surrounding counties on-board with a very, very tiny tax increase. Then explain that in the future, once the stadium food and beverage taxes are going to expire, request a vote to continue those taxes for Marion and Hamilton Counties and then re-look at considering a fixed rail line.

Also, in order to sell the plan, they may consider a more statewide approach. Marion County and surrounding doughnut counties isn't the only area where lots of commuters travel from another county to a downtown area, or location of mass employment. Consider offering the Lake Co., St. Joseph Co., Ft. Wayne, Louisville, Cincinnati, and Evansville areas to vote on a similar idea. Partner with some big box stores so people won't have to drive as far. Even if none of their citizens vote for transit, including them might help at least give the Indy area a chance.
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Old 01-21-2012, 02:58 PM
 
Location: Fishers, IN
5,637 posts, read 5,987,196 times
Reputation: 2939
Quote:
Originally Posted by indy_317 View Post
Also, in order to sell the plan, they may consider a more statewide approach. Marion County and surrounding doughnut counties isn't the only area where lots of commuters travel from another county to a downtown area, or location of mass employment. Consider offering the Lake Co., St. Joseph Co., Ft. Wayne, Louisville, Cincinnati, and Evansville areas to vote on a similar idea. Partner with some big box stores so people won't have to drive as far. Even if none of their citizens vote for transit, including them might help at least give the Indy area a chance.
I've long felt that the transit advocates in Central and NW Indiana (South Shore expansion) should join forces.
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Old 01-21-2012, 06:24 PM
 
Location: Indianapolis
1,509 posts, read 1,512,359 times
Reputation: 851
Quote:
Originally Posted by grmasterb View Post
Looks like the bill has no chance of passing the House. Back to the drawing board?

Mass transit plan faces likely defeat, bill sponsor says | 2012-01-20 | Indianapolis Business Journal | IBJ.com
Indiana sucks! I'm so sick of this stupid backwards state holding our city back. It honestly just makes me want to move. Isn't there a way for cities to pass this on an individual basis? If Indianapolis can decide to fund the Pacers, and Carmel can decide to build an entire downtown, can't individual cities at least expand their public transportation? Is there not some kind of loophole?
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Old 01-21-2012, 06:38 PM
 
2,740 posts, read 2,013,667 times
Reputation: 1231
Well, you win some you lose some. I think I said months ago that there were some in this city that would like nothing more than to keep Indianapolis the way it is and there may be some who would like it to go back to what it was. Nevertheless, you have to keep on keepin on and things change whether they want them to or not. What's sad is by the time they realize it, its competitor cities (they have 8 they benchmark against) will have surpassed them and gone on to the next level and this city will be too busy trying to play catch up and stuck behind the 8-ball.

The city shouldn't need state approval for BRT and it is relatively quick to implement. Outside of the massive road work that would have to be done, esp. on the south side in Franklin and Decatur townships, is relatively cheap to implement with your biggest cost being the buses themselves.
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