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Old 07-02-2012, 09:00 AM
 
Location: Hither and thither
423 posts, read 1,245,462 times
Reputation: 210

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Quote:
Originally Posted by normcrok8 View Post
Marion Couny will easily be totally urban within the next 15 years, maybe sooner.
Not in your wildest dreams. But I do appreciate your optimism!

 
Old 07-02-2012, 09:10 AM
 
Location: Hither and thither
423 posts, read 1,245,462 times
Reputation: 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by normcrok8 View Post
Its like this.....people can argue whether or not Indy will be completely eaten by development soon or not. But the fact remains that Indy (829K) and Marion County (906K) hit record high populations at the 2010 Census (so did the state), making Indy the 11th largest US city by city limits population. Based on that fact, I think its probably safe to assume all townships grew, with the exception of Center and Washington. To question Indys further development throughout Marion County is not debatable. When I was growing up in the 80s and 90s, I remember when Franklin TWP and half of Perry TPW was wide open land of corn and soybean fields. This is no longer the case and is obvious everywhere you look. Its even more obvious in Hamilton, Johnsons and Hendricks Counties. Indy is growing and developing a lot, so I dont understand the debate.
It is COMPLETELY debatable to question Indy's further development throughout Marion County.

If everything grew in the world a straight line projection, you'd be right. But only if your standard for density is Jacksonville, is Indianapolis even remotely close to being fully developed? There are still tons of farms in Franklin Twp and Decatur; there are even quite a few in Perry. There are also still huge swathes of vacant land in Wayne township, particularly just north of the airport. South of Washington Street, the rest of Warren Township is still very rural. Do you really think that these going to sprout up new neighborhoods in the next 15 years? Washington Street around the airport is already fairly blighted and homes around there aren't worth much--it's not a desirable area and it's going to remain vacant.

In addition, school districts like Decatur don't compare as favorably on most quality measurements when compared to Hendricks County. Why would a developer plunk a lot of money for a huge new tract of land when the cost is minimally more in Hendricks County but the schools are so much better and taxes are lower? There are likely to still be some families who choose Decatur over Plainfield to be closer to DT Indy, but the vast majority will not. If there were such a high demand to build housing in Decatur Township, why is so much already left undeveloped when housing developments are sprouting up everywhere in Plainfield or around Mooresville in Morgan County? Demand for the land in Decatur is simply not that high anymore, at least for building new houses. It has a much better future in warehousing and logistics thanks to its proximity to the airport and all those interstate highway junctions.
 
Old 07-02-2012, 11:35 AM
 
170 posts, read 325,169 times
Reputation: 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by chalcedony View Post
It is COMPLETELY debatable to question Indy's further development throughout Marion County.

If everything grew in the world a straight line projection, you'd be right. There are still tons of farms in Franklin Twp and Decatur; there are even quite a few in Perry. There are also still huge swathes of vacant land in Wayne township, particularly just north of the airport. South of Washington Street, the rest of Warren Township is still very rural. Do you really think that these going to sprout up new neighborhoods in the next 15 years? Washington Street around the airport is already fairly blighted and homes around there aren't worth much--it's not a desirable area and it's going to remain vacant.

In addition, school districts like Decatur don't compare as favorably on most quality measurements when compared to Hendricks County. Why would a developer plunk a lot of money for a huge new tract of land when the cost is minimally more in Hendricks County but the schools are so much better and taxes are lower? There are likely to still be some families who choose Decatur over Plainfield to be closer to DT Indy, but the vast majority will not. If there were such a high demand to build housing in Decatur Township, why is so much already left undeveloped when housing developments are sprouting up everywhere in Plainfield or around Mooresville in Morgan County? Demand for the land in Decatur is simply not that high anymore, at least for building new houses. It has a much better future in warehousing and logistics thanks to its proximity to the airport and all those interstate highway junctions.
Yer not getting the big picture. The big picture is that the outter townships will continue to develope because people/businesses are moving there to get away from the trouble of Center Township/inner Indianapolis. Yes, the suburbs are growing faster than the city itself. Big deal. Its always been that way and its like that in almost every city in America. If you look at a map or a satellite image of Marion County, the developement in the townships is obvious (altough I wouldnt live near Wahsington street anywhere either). But I remember when there was NOTHING on Southport Road west of Bluff Road. Just go by there today and you will see the huge difference. And it will be even more profound over the next decade as the Intertstate 69 expansion comes thru. To say the outter townships, even Franklin and Deacatur, wont see any growth over the next maybe 15 yrs is totally incorrect because Ive seen it with my own eyes.
 
Old 07-02-2012, 11:39 AM
 
170 posts, read 325,169 times
Reputation: 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by chalcedony View Post
It is COMPLETELY debatable to question Indy's further development throughout Marion County.

If everything grew in the world a straight line projection, you'd be right. But only if your standard for density is Jacksonville, is Indianapolis even remotely close to being fully developed? There are still tons of farms in Franklin Twp and Decatur; there are even quite a few in Perry. There are also still huge swathes of vacant land in Wayne township, particularly just north of the airport. South of Washington Street, the rest of Warren Township is still very rural. Do you really think that these going to sprout up new neighborhoods in the next 15 years? Washington Street around the airport is already fairly blighted and homes around there aren't worth much--it's not a desirable area and it's going to remain vacant.

In addition, school districts like Decatur don't compare as favorably on most quality measurements when compared to Hendricks County. Why would a developer plunk a lot of money for a huge new tract of land when the cost is minimally more in Hendricks County but the schools are so much better and taxes are lower? There are likely to still be some families who choose Decatur over Plainfield to be closer to DT Indy, but the vast majority will not. If there were such a high demand to build housing in Decatur Township, why is so much already left undeveloped when housing developments are sprouting up everywhere in Plainfield or around Mooresville in Morgan County? Demand for the land in Decatur is simply not that high anymore, at least for building new houses. It has a much better future in warehousing and logistics thanks to its proximity to the airport and all those interstate highway junctions.
There may not be much in the way of housing in the future (only maybe), but warehouses and other businesses still count as development. And it will be even more profound when the Interstate 69 extansion comes thru.
 
Old 07-02-2012, 12:01 PM
 
Location: Englewood, Near Eastside Indy
8,954 posts, read 17,222,674 times
Reputation: 7313
Quote:
Originally Posted by normcrok8 View Post
(altough I wouldnt live near Wahsington street anywhere either).
Why?
 
Old 07-02-2012, 02:54 PM
 
Location: Indianapolis
3,892 posts, read 5,495,344 times
Reputation: 957
normcrok8 your spot on about the Interstate 69 development.
do we all seem to forget that?
 
Old 07-03-2012, 12:33 PM
 
Location: new to Indy
218 posts, read 461,396 times
Reputation: 283
Quote:
Originally Posted by Broadrippleguy View Post
normcrok8 your spot on about the Interstate 69 development.
do we all seem to forget that?
Many of us are tree-huggers who have actually been trying to fight it. Aside from trucking, the sort of businesses that it will encourage are hardly a boon to the Indiana economy: more fast food, hotels, chain restaurants. Yay. And aren't we awfully dependent on trucking anyway in this country--maybe a little too much so? If we weren't so busy destroying all our old rail lines, we could at least have a better balance between trucks and freight rail, the latter of which doesn't depend on oil. So, no, I haven't forgotten about I-69 development--the difference I am not at all cheering it along.

And I agree that there isn't a chance that Indianapolis/Marion County is going to completely fill up in the next 15 years, or in the lifetimes of my children. Just not going to happen. Normcrok, maybe it's been awhile since you been here, but things aren't the way they used to be. Marion County is good at attracting yuppies and immigrants, but not so much at the standard red-blooded American suburbanite. More and more people are skipping the county by and going right for the suburbs--their loss, IMO. But I can't necessarily convince them when some people would much rather build a brand new house on a cornfield in Hendricks/Morgan/Hamilton/Johnson counties.
 
Old 07-03-2012, 02:36 PM
 
583 posts, read 882,675 times
Reputation: 373
Quote:
Originally Posted by Broadrippleguy View Post
jacksonville probably wont overtake Indy in 2020 cause Flordia isnt as highly desirable to relocate too anymore.
You don't visit Florida much, do you? As of about right now, Florida has moved past New York for third in U.S. population.

Quote:
As some news articles said and this doesnt surprise me 50% of people that relocate to Flordia move away within 2 years............. its one thing to vacation to hot and humid and hurricane prone Flordia. its a totally different world living there.
The nine months of heat and humidity are a problem, but very few spots outside of California have decent weather, a coastline, major populations and no income tax.

Quote:
Flordias fast growth days are numbered and the new hot relocating places are in the midwest and the south outside of Flordia and Texas and Indiana.
Sounds like wishful thinking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miserable Midwest View Post
City limits are arbitrary and totally meaningless in the world of business. Using city limit populations only serve those who live in small metro areas where the city limits are stretched out much farther than in most places. These people can then pound their chests and shout at what a big urban area they live in. When businesses want to expand into the "top 20 markets" or "top 50 markets", they are NEVER looking at city limits...it's always MSA. You can boast about city limit population all day long, but it means ZERO in the real world. Nada. Do you really think anyone believes that Indianapolis is bigger than Boston, Miami, Atlanta, DC, San Francisco, Detroit, Seattle and Denver? Seriously??
Fantastic post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by A2DAC1985 View Post
Two things here:

I don't understand why people keep saying a city's limits are meaningless.
Because they are. Only the metro area counts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by A2DAC1985 View Post
-Person A has a bank account with $10,000,000 in it.
*Person B has a bank account with $100,000 in it.

Who has more money? It's obvious who physically has the most money.

-Person A is retired with a house, a car, a vacation home.
*Person B is retired with 5 mansions in different parts of the country, 2 yachts, a helicopter, 100,000 shares of Apple stock, mutual funds, bonds, CDs.

So now when the question of, "Who has more money" is brought up, people think that Person B has more physical money.

Using the completely arbitrary boundaries of a person's bank account/wallet, Person A still has physically $9,900,000 more than Person B. Cut and dry. End of story. It's a fact.
You've just proven that looking at money, alone, is meaningless. What you've just noted is that looking at net worth is far more important than looking at liquid assets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by domergurl View Post
Would love to see your stat about people leaving FLORIDA as fast as they move there.
Something very similar, if not identical, to what he posted is true. People do have a very high rate of leaving Florida relatively shortly after moving there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by msamhunter View Post
In and of itself green flows across all mythical borders worldwide. To say city doesn't matter is though a complete farce. Company A looks to set up shop or relocate, the amenities of Bartow county Georgia means nothing to them. What matters is Atlanta. Now once they've decided on Atlanta, they very well may end up choosing to relocate to Bartow County BUT the point being, no one looks to relocate (individual or business) based off of a suburb. You don't hear anyone or any company dying to move to Naperville. That person or that entity is looking at Chicago period. That is the first and foremost thought. Only having chosen CORE city does then one get into the particulars of just exactly where in or near that core city. It's an afterthought and secondary in nature and usually where local competition comes in. Other than that, it's nothing local about it. It's core city vs. core city and only when that core city wins out, does the MSA come into play with regards to where you pay taxes. C-D people tend to have this glorious outlook on MSA's as compared to its core city but truth be told, MSAs are nothing but dime a dozen suburbs that 95% of the people couldn't tell you where they were, esp. without mentioning the core city for reference. If I asked you where is DeMotte Indiana, could you say exactly where it was without using google or bing, let alone know what MSA it belongs to?

Some people need their suburbs to boost their cities up. You can have a desirable overall geographic location but less than desirable subset of that same location, Miami for example. The core city itself is a crap hole but it has highly desired suburban areas. Same with Detroit.
That's the best and most coherent post you've ever made. I agree completely.

Last edited by GregHenry; 07-03-2012 at 02:51 PM..
 
Old 07-03-2012, 02:47 PM
 
Location: Englewood, Near Eastside Indy
8,954 posts, read 17,222,674 times
Reputation: 7313
City limits and metro areas are different definitions and different entities. City limits matter for some things, and for some things it is not important. Anyone trying to dismiss one or the other is misguided. They both matter in some context.
 
Old 07-05-2012, 09:03 AM
REM
 
368 posts, read 993,206 times
Reputation: 362
Quote:
Originally Posted by Broadrippleguy View Post
not talking metro.
talking CITY limits.
Of course Austins metro is bigger its in the South. Where its holy land according to the people that relocate there. Until a Wild Fire or Big heatwave like this makes them think otherwise.

Also well Indy may have 2, 100 degree days how long is it going to be near or above that in austin?
Seriously do you like looking like the biggest baboon on the internet? I'm not trolling I seriously want to know.
You love indy, we get it, that in no means takes away from other cities that have great job, population and infrastructural growth. Austin just happens to be one of those cities, they have a very high number of fortune 500 companies with regional hubs there. They have a night life and a young upwardly mobile population that indy could only dream about. Don't try and belittle a city that's had amazing growth over something arbitrary as weather or a natural disaster, because as we all know indiana isn't exactly ranked 1st in most "stable, normal weather"
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