I Need Some Insight From Residents of Indy

[domergurl]

because he is a high school kid.

[Chicago76]

Originally Posted by indy_317

Threads like this are funny. I guess the underlying need for these threads is: What kind and how many places are there for me to turn over my hard earned cash? Is that the ultimate goal of urban living: Spend, spend, spend? That seems to be exactly what many people, especially the younger generations, care about...doing stuff which cost money.

I'm a home body, I save my money instead of giving it to someone to provide me a momentary slice of pleasure. Maybe that is why I really don't understand these threads. Downtown Indy is OK. The one thing the wife and I do is eat out every Saturday. Most of the times we have a chain place we go to. It is near the home and serves good burgers and chicken and has a reasonable price point. Sometimes we try something different, but outside of that, we usually hangout at home or with family. I don't need to drop $100-$300/weekend to be happy....

Some fair points, and for many, I think it is a consumer-driven thing. A homebody can live anywhere and generally be equally happy, so it comes down to best house for the money, regardless of amenities in the immediate area. That's fine. For a lot of people who preach walkability, it comes down to more than just where they can consume things. It's a social thing. My parents moved the same time I did, and my dad is probably the most social creature in our family. My wife, daughter, and I know more neighbors extremely well and talk to people more regularly than my parents do by far...probably by a factor of 10--and we have less time for such things. The difference is we live 20 people to an acre with an abundance of shared experiences right outside our door and they live 4 to an acre with an abundance of people doing yard work or sitting at their private pools behind privacy fences in the summer. I can go across the street to the playground after work and meet up with 10 other dads and their kids...no planning required. You take turns bringing over beers, split them up, and talk for an hour while watching our kids play. You get to know those people well when you're over there 3x a week for months. In a suburb, there is a tendency to stay in a bubble. You live in your bubble (house), open the bubble (garage), and leave in your mobile bubble (car). You nod to your neighbor while you're cutting the grass. You shop at a giant store where the employees and consumers are basically anonymous. Some people like it that way. Walking promotes human interaction, stopping to chat, etc.

On the consumer end, I like to know that my hard earned money is being spent and redistributed locally. If I go to Applebees, those profits are going to corporate far away. My cash is saved by local owners who I know for a fact have purchased real estate for rehab in the local community, put their kids through college, etc with those business profits. I know all of the employees by name and their stories and they know mine. We're more friends than customer-service provider. They've brought me chicken soup when I was sick and my wife was out of town. The owners helped me network for work. I helped them with pricing out a cash flow analysis for expansion. They've bought me cases of wine at wholesale cost simply because I've asked where I can pick that up. They got slammed one night and a worker was out ill so I did dishes for an hour to keep them from drowning. Often times, the cost of a meal is less than a chain, and due to restaurant discounts costs the same or less than if I tried to make the same thing. For me, the local market has cheaper meat and produce prices than a chain grocer, and my daughter has fun with street entertainers at the entrance. The local corner store is run by a neighbor. My daughter calls the owner her "Mr Hooper" from Sesame Street. I know when people's parents are seriously ill, where people are from, what they do for a living, who grills an awesome steak, can organize impromptu toddler soccer games, whose grown kids are coming to visit this weekend with grandkids from Kansas City, and so on.

A lot of people get their sense of community through church, but I'm not a religious person. These types of connections are really important (and easier to find in a walking neighborhood) for me. It's also built in exercise. I walk a couple miles a day thanks to having a variety of things to walk to. If I lived in a surburban neighborhood, I don't think there would be enough to capture my attention to make me want to leave the house. Some people wouldn't mind one way or the other. For some people that's what they want, but on a board like C-D, things are going to have more of an urban slant. Neither is better/worse than the other. It comes down to preference. Still, it would be nice if there was a bit more available in terms of walking neighborhoods with mixed stores, restaurants, houses, multi-family in safe environments to make this choice more viable to people. I do think that many would prefer this style of living if the option was more accessible.

[msamhunter]

Originally Posted by Chicago76

Some fair points, and for many, I think it is a consumer-driven thing. A homebody can live anywhere and generally be equally happy, so it comes down to best house for the money, regardless of amenities in the immediate area. That's fine. For a lot of people who preach walkability, it comes down to more than just where they can consume things. It's a social thing. My parents moved the same time I did, and my dad is probably the most social creature in our family. My wife, daughter, and I know more neighbors extremely well and talk to people more regularly than my parents do by far...probably by a factor of 10--and we have less time for such things. The difference is we live 20 people to an acre with an abundance of shared experiences right outside our door and they live 4 to an acre with an abundance of people doing yard work or sitting at their private pools behind privacy fences in the summer. I can go across the street to the playground after work and meet up with 10 other dads and their kids...no planning required. You take turns bringing over beers, split them up, and talk for an hour while watching our kids play. You get to know those people well when you're over there 3x a week for months. In a suburb, there is a tendency to stay in a bubble. You live in your bubble (house), open the bubble (garage), and leave in your mobile bubble (car). You nod to your neighbor while you're cutting the grass. You shop at a giant store where the employees and consumers are basically anonymous. Some people like it that way. Walking promotes human interaction, stopping to chat, etc.

On the consumer end, I like to know that my hard earned money is being spent and redistributed locally. If I go to Applebees, those profits are going to corporate far away. My cash is saved by local owners who I know for a fact have purchased real estate for rehab in the local community, put their kids through college, etc with those business profits. I know all of the employees by name and their stories and they know mine. We're more friends than customer-service provider. They've brought me chicken soup when I was sick and my wife was out of town. The owners helped me network for work. I helped them with pricing out a cash flow analysis for expansion. They've bought me cases of wine at wholesale cost simply because I've asked where I can pick that up. They got slammed one night and a worker was out ill so I did dishes for an hour to keep them from drowning. Often times, the cost of a meal is less than a chain, and due to restaurant discounts costs the same or less than if I tried to make the same thing. For me, the local market has cheaper meat and produce prices than a chain grocer, and my daughter has fun with street entertainers at the entrance. The local corner store is run by a neighbor. My daughter calls the owner her "Mr Hooper" from Sesame Street. I know when people's parents are seriously ill, where people are from, what they do for a living, who grills an awesome steak, can organize impromptu toddler soccer games, whose grown kids are coming to visit this weekend with grandkids from Kansas City, and so on.

A lot of people get their sense of community through church, but I'm not a religious person. These types of connections are really important (and easier to find in a walking neighborhood) for me. It's also built in exercise. I walk a couple miles a day thanks to having a variety of things to walk to. If I lived in a surburban neighborhood, I don't think there would be enough to capture my attention to make me want to leave the house. Some people wouldn't mind one way or the other. For some people that's what they want, but on a board like C-D, things are going to have more of an urban slant. Neither is better/worse than the other. It comes down to preference. Still, it would be nice if there was a bit more available in terms of walking neighborhoods with mixed stores, restaurants, houses, multi-family in safe environments to make this choice more viable to people. I do think that many would prefer this style of living if the option was more accessible.

Thats probably more personality than neighborhood unless u just dont have neighbors. Ive lived on every side of inpls and dt and the most neighborly exp actually came in franklin township. There isnt anything remotely urban about ft. Yet all neighbors knew each other. There were 55 houses in the addition and we all did the same things as you. You also knew everyone in the addition south, took food to the fire station, knew who was visiting, issues, illness, took trips to kings island, etc. When i lived right at michigan and highland, knew no one. Hoosier hospitality must have skipped a few blocks but u goto woodfuff and everyone was friendly. Neighborhoods dont make good neighbors. Good neighbors make good neighborhoods.

I agree about local, it comes down to convenience and pricing sometimes. Every job helps someone pay the bills and put food on the table. Chain talk reminds me of the walmart steak commercial in the fancy restaurant. You give the same chain prepared dish, stick it on a plate at a local joint serve it up and no one will know the difference. It is like putting store brand coffee in a folgers can and making coffee. As long as they think its folgers it taste good.

[Chicago76]

Originally Posted by msamhunter

Thats probably more personality than neighborhood unless u just dont have neighbors. Ive lived on every side of inpls and dt and the most neighborly exp actually came in franklin township. There isnt anything remotely urban about ft. Yet all neighbors knew each other. There were 55 houses in the addition and we all did the same things as you. You also knew everyone in the addition south, took food to the fire station, knew who was visiting, issues, illness, took trips to kings island, etc. When i lived right at michigan and highland, knew no one. Hoosier hospitality must have skipped a few blocks but u goto woodfuff and everyone was friendly. Neighborhoods dont make good neighbors. Good neighbors make good neighborhoods.

I do think your mileage can totally vary based upon unique circumstances. A suburban neighborhood can be just as neighborly as an urban one for sure. On average, assuming people are equally inclined to seek one another out, that doesn't hold. Big difference in a subdivision, I'm whirring by someone at 25 miles per hour while they're going 25 mph the other direction on the way to work. Fewer chance encounters to talk compared to waiting 10 minutes at the bus with the same people every day, or passing on the sidewalk in front of shops around the corner or walking everywhere, etc. I'm not saying it doesn't happen everywhere, but the point is, extra effort is needed when everyone has their quarter to half acre stake in the ground. You can hit neighborly paydirt anywhere in terms of people who really take an interest in one another, but the fundamental truth is, greater density (up to a certain point below hitting a concrete jungle environment) leads to more connection points because everyone's little bubble doesn't include a backyard oasis, 2 car garage, etc.

Originally Posted by msamhunter

I agree about local, it comes down to convenience and pricing sometimes. Every job helps someone pay the bills and put food on the table. Chain talk reminds me of the walmart steak commercial in the fancy restaurant. You give the same chain prepared dish, stick it on a plate at a local joint serve it up and no one will know the difference. It is like putting store brand coffee in a folgers can and making coffee. As long as they think its folgers it taste good.

But eating at (insert chain here) puts more money in the investors of (Outback/other chain) stationed around the country/world. Re: difference as far as food/service quality go, for some things, and depending upon tastes, you are exactly right. I like black coffee. Two chains, but Duncan Donuts is as good as Starbucks for that. My coffee palate needs coffee to be hot, not weak, and made with non-stale/fungus-ridden beans. That's it for me. A solid burger, plate of spaghetti, and so on can be had in a lot of places. Other things are different. Indy doesn't have a lot of huge walkable hubs where 20+ independent restaurants tend to congregate, so the best local places are scattered all over the metro more, but a list, local v. chain at your national chain of choice w/ similar price. Some of the ethnic has no counterpart, and some of the more American just isn't as good at a chain: Santorini's Greek, Red Lion's scotch eggs, a good pork tenderloin, Indian, Ethiopian, Thai, fried chicken and fried biscuits as good as Fireside made, Rene's baked goods, a Shapiro's corned beef and sides, a local tacqueria selling $2 tacos vs. Taco Bell or Don Pablo's, Bazbeaux pizza, jazz at the Chatterbox, Tortas Guicho, Patachou's, Black Market, ribs, and so on. Same price point, same general type of food/entertainment, a chain counterpart either doesn't exist or gets beat pretty handily. Trattoria's in Greenwood makes in awesome filet with black peppercorns and a creme sauce. A bit more expensive than Lone Star but much, much better IMO. It's much cheaper than Ruth's Chris or Morton's and it hangs with anything I've had from either. If there was no difference between chain or local, there would be no reason for local to exist. Chains have lower costs, and you know what you're going to get if you're in Albany, NY or Omaha, NE.

Tying it back to visitor impression/reputation, if you look back at media comments during the Super Bowl, all of the raves came from some experience that was different than the standard Super Bowl experience you can get anywhere: compactness, Conseco/Bankers Life different than other NBA arenas when they took in a Pacers game, side trips to Hinkle, Jimmy Fallon raving about Recess, Bill Simmons talking about an Indy's sportswriter's father's place on the eastside and the awesome barbeque, St. Elmo's (I think the shrimp cocktail is a bit overrated, but it is indisputably different), Shapiro's, Slippery Noodle, pizza at Bazbeaux, Chatham Tap, the Rathskeller, City Market, Sun King beer. They aren't talking about how awesome Buffalo Wild Wings/Chili's/Olive Garden is or how good the Bud Light tastes. Maybe some here think that's just because those comments are coming from a bunch of coastal, fancypants sportswriters and entertainment types. For better or worse, it is the local place that gives visitors (including the fancypants ones) an impression/connection/window into a city.

[jupiler]

Originally Posted by GregHenry

Taste is relative, but I find Indianapolis far prettier than Pittsburgh.

I respect different opinions. Still, this one made me go: "What? Are you serious?"

It is indeed a diverse world

[WILWRadio]

Originally Posted by jupiler

I respect different opinions. Still, this one made me go: "What? Are you serious?"

It is indeed a diverse world

Some guys like women that don't have "hills". LOL

Yeah, Indy is definitely not as picturesque as the Pittsburgh area. But that issue aside it certainly is a pretty good metro area with a lot of positive developments taking place. And it is a close ride to the hills of southern Indiana.

[urbanologist]

I'm sure if you were to replace downtown Pittsburgh with downtown Indy on that little peninsula people would probably look at the circle city much differently.