Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I say, stand proud, Indy. Stand up to your pro sports overseers! Demand arts, music, and culture. We were born free but are everywhere in chains! Mr Irsay, Mr Simon, tear down this wall!
Going to be honest and say I did not read any of what you posted. I kind of mindlessly scrolled past it as it was brought on by banter, again being honest, between posters I no longer take seriously. Anyway, I wanted to mention I stopped mindlessly scrolling when I saw the quoted text. Come on. I known you are new here, but there is art in this city. There is music. There is culture here. Look up Native Sun. Look up Artrageous with Nate. Look up the art lab. Look up the film festivals. This town is not devoid of people creating here. Just because the small sample size of internet complainers doesn't know what's going on, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
I agree with SC on many of his points about selling Indy/Indiana. The problem is that we just don't have any real draw outside of the Indy 500. I remember when I was an older teen on vacation with my folks. My dad is a big talker, always willing to meet new people and speak for a bit. I remember there two things that many people would bring up when they found out we were from Indiana/Indy: The Indy 500 and Bobby Knight (not IU basketball).
What I'm seeing is that people now have to get to a major city for jobs. Lots of good smaller town and city kids are going away to college and the ones I talk to say there is nothing back home for them. Unless they live in or near say Lake, Allen, or St. Joseph counties, job opportunities are bleak outside the Indy metro area. Even then, those areas can only offer so many jobs with decent starting incomes and upward mobility. When I talk to some of these young people, some liked growing up in a smaller area, only a few have the dreams of going to huge cities like Chicago or NYC.
If you look at the Trip Advisor forums, the Indiana forum gets minimal involvement. There just isn't anything to really draw numerous people even for a leisurely weekend. When compared to E. Tenn., it just doesn't compare. A good friend from the past talked about moving down there a few years ago. His wife got into the medical field and I'm sure she could get a job in either the tri-cities or Knoxville area. He said he loves the mountains. I feel the same way. I'm already considering a likely move in ten years, a pre-retirement move. My hope is that by that time, my wife and I will have enough assets so that good paying jobs aren't an issue. Ten years ago I really liked the NW Montana and Rapid City areas, but as I get older, I'm not sure I want to deal with harsh winter weather. I think the weather is playing more and more of an issue with where people relocate to. I wish there were stats on the number of young people moving today (mostly talking college grads) vs prior decades.
My favorite state is NC. I've seen two born and raised in Indiana young medical professionals say they are moving there. Another two weren't originally from here, but they are also leaving after having been in Indy for a while. Of all these types of people I spoke with, about 30% were heading to NC.
... it was brought on by banter, again being honest, between posters I no longer take seriously...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toxic Toast
I known you are new here, but there is art in this city. There is music. There is culture here.
All one has to do is pick up a Nuvo. I'm not really into the arts at all, but I do pick up Nuvo from time to time. Plenty of plays, musical events, art events, etc..
All one has to do is pick up a Nuvo. I'm not really into the arts at all, but I do pick up Nuvo from time to time. Plenty of plays, musical events, art events, etc..
I read Nuvo as well and aside from the musical and food/beverage events, not a ton there I'm really interested in. It also skews pretty far to the left on commentary, which I don't much care for.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bilgewater
As a recent transplant to Indy, I've thought about this issue as well and posted on it.
No doubt marketing researchers can give us better information than our own anecdotes, but my sense is that Indy comes off as boring particularly to folks who are just not that into pro-sports. If you're into pro football and basketball (men's and women's, which is cool), especially, then Indy is a big deal town and probably not boring. Also there's pro-baseball (not MLB, but still) and pro-soccer too. And Butler basketball, etc.
Indy's city fathers and mothers decided long ago that the best way to get suburbanites and out-of-towners to come to downtown Indianapolis in non-work time, to eat and play there, and take pride in it was to make taxpayers pay and pay a lot to build sports infrastructure. Why is THAT the place that modern Republicans and Democrats can hold hands and kiss in public? See this famous scholarly study on the question of whether public tax support and subsidies for pro sport infrastructure benefits cities economically The short answer is that the economic benefits are overstated and the economic losses that occur when teams leave is never as great as feared. But our politicians and thought-leaders just love to fear-monger; it's in their job description. https://www.heartland.org/sites/all/.../pdfs/3075.pdf
But, yeah, I'm in the political and cultural minority here.
IMO, sports are one of the few things in our increasingly divided society that somewhat bring people together. I think Indy has an excellent thing going with sports - we have top notch stadiums, and the Colts and Pacers are both above average lately. The Indians are also a great minor league club. I would rarely go downtown if it wasn't for sports, and when I go downtown, I often get something to eat or stop for a beer after the game. I don't know if the ROI is "positive" for the stadiums and largesse, but if it isn't already, I'd assume it will be going forward.
I agree with SC on many of his points about selling Indy/Indiana. The problem is that we just don't have any real draw outside of the Indy 500. I remember when I was an older teen on vacation with my folks. My dad is a big talker, always willing to meet new people and speak for a bit. I remember there two things that many people would bring up when they found out we were from Indiana/Indy: The Indy 500 and Bobby Knight (not IU basketball).
What I'm seeing is that people now have to get to a major city for jobs. Lots of good smaller town and city kids are going away to college and the ones I talk to say there is nothing back home for them. Unless they live in or near say Lake, Allen, or St. Joseph counties, job opportunities are bleak outside the Indy metro area. Even then, those areas can only offer so many jobs with decent starting incomes and upward mobility. When I talk to some of these young people, some liked growing up in a smaller area, only a few have the dreams of going to huge cities like Chicago or NYC.
If you look at the Trip Advisor forums, the Indiana forum gets minimal involvement. There just isn't anything to really draw numerous people even for a leisurely weekend. When compared to E. Tenn., it just doesn't compare. A good friend from the past talked about moving down there a few years ago. His wife got into the medical field and I'm sure she could get a job in either the tri-cities or Knoxville area. He said he loves the mountains. I feel the same way. I'm already considering a likely move in ten years, a pre-retirement move. My hope is that by that time, my wife and I will have enough assets so that good paying jobs aren't an issue. Ten years ago I really liked the NW Montana and Rapid City areas, but as I get older, I'm not sure I want to deal with harsh winter weather. I think the weather is playing more and more of an issue with where people relocate to. I wish there were stats on the number of young people moving today (mostly talking college grads) vs prior decades.
My favorite state is NC. I've seen two born and raised in Indiana young medical professionals say they are moving there. Another two weren't originally from here, but they are also leaving after having been in Indy for a while. Of all these types of people I spoke with, about 30% were heading to NC.
I was basically in this same boat. I graduated college in 2010 and didn't really think about moving out of my hometown, or at least "nearby" metros like Charlotte, Nashville, Raleigh, or possibly Atlanta. None of that materialized over the next few years, so I was applying everywhere in desperation, and ended up here after a series of call center jobs, the last being $11/hr with no benefits in Tennessee.
I still haven't found anything back in Tennessee paying worth a crap ($40k would be alright to start) and have found a better job here than what I initially had, so I feel stuck here, but don't really care for it (don't hate it either). IMO, the best thing the area offers is a healthy economy (much better than anywhere in the South), relatively high wages, and a relatively low COL. Even major cities in the South often have few jobs paying decent wages, Atlanta being the exception. I've gotten far, far more interest from companies in Florida than anywhere in the rest of the South, and Florida gets dumped on all the time on C-D. NC is a great state - lovely mountains, nice, warm summers, moderate winters, beaches, far more outdoor stuff and newcomers/new feeling than around here, but I can't seem to get a job there. I see all the stats about people moving to the Sunbelt states, but I've never had any luck with employment anywhere other than "up nawth."
The people I know who are really happy here are generally married with kids, stay around town on the weekend types, or those who have lived here all their lives. I had three lakes and three rivers within half an hour of my childhood home, several state parks, a municipal park on a small mountain with its own small lake, etc. I could easily go hiking, fishing, boating, out to the marina for a beer, etc., after work in the evening. Here - most of that is simply not available within an hour to hour and a half drive, and what is available is of a lower quality than what I'm used to. I suppose I just need more stimulation from my natural environment than what's available here, but I also have to work for a living, so I just suck it up and go to Michigan when I can.
I-65 to Louisville isn't that eventful either. Most traffic is not going to go down 37 past Bloomington - it's not a major transportation corridor and there are no major cities that way. Sure, there are scenic parts of Indiana, but they aren't seen from main roads.
I drove I-65 from Louisville to Indy many times, and I remember the road surface of the Interstate there was horrendous.
Going to be honest and say I did not read any of what you posted. .... This town is not devoid of people creating here. Just because the small sample size of internet complainers doesn't know what's going on, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
My mom always said you can catch more flies with honey than vinegar, but then again she didn't live to see the gruesome etiquette standards of anonymous internet fora.
So you "did not read any" of what I posted and yet you offer up an insulting and wrongheaded riposte? Your loved ones must be so delighted at this special talent.
Anyway, I didn't make the dumb claim that Indy was "devoid" of culture. Rather I was making the argument that the city decided to put a lot of eggs/tax dollars into the pro sports basket, and I wondered what if a bigger share of those eggs/tax dollars had gone into the "arts and culture" basket instead. This speaks to the issue of Indy's reputation, at least among non-sports-lovers for being "boring."
It's sad when people "respond" to posts that they admit to never having even read. What is the point of that, anyway? I'm a teacher so I'm used to that kind of thing-but from college-age students. "Non-traditional" college students (aka grown-ups) rarely BS and make comments on things they haven't read.
Every city has history, whether or not it's interesting is pretty subjective. Indy is an old city, it's seen a lot, there's bound to be some interest there.
Second most national monuments of any city in the country after D.C., yeah sounds like Indy is set on landmarks.
Geographical features, how about the Nature Trail or the man made canal that goes through the city? There are some very impressive pictures of both.
Unique features? Can you be more vague?
Indy has plenty of sports culture, between the Pacers and Colts, and the Indy 500 and Brickyard 400 for racing, plus a whole lot of minor league teams. Indy is increasingly becoming a white collar town, I'd reckon those people have their own establishments that are catering to them in their various areas.
But please tell me what makes Kansas City, Columbus, Louisville, Milwaukee, Charlotte, Sacramento, Cleveland, or Pittsburgh anymore or less exciting than Indianapolis.
There gets to be a size where most cities have all the same amenities, at the 2 million mark most of these cities have a lot of things in common.
No one is getting excited to visit those cities either. All are cities that are probably great for people who live there (I am looking to relocate to Pittsburgh, among others, myself) but aren't too exciting for tourists. Or rather, in Indianapolis' case, aren't too exciting for tourists who don't care about sports. The Indy500 is reason enough to cross it off my already-too-long list of places to visit. As far as other sports teams, why would I care as a tourist? They're not my teams. Sports culture is also not a factor (and perhaps even a negative mark) when considering places to relocate. When so much of Indianapolis seems focused on sports, there doesn't seem to be as much to appeal to those of us who aren't interested.
Pittsburgh is a good example of a city going through a revitalization to attract young professionals and perhaps even tourists. Food and arts culture is on the up and up there, while still being a very affordable place to live and visit. Pittsburgh is benefited by several major, world renowned universities based there. Indianapolis only has Butler, which is more well known for its study abroad programs (one of which I studied with while attending another university) than it's home campus or academics - at least outside of the midwest.
No one is getting excited to visit those cities either. All are cities that are probably great for people who live there (I am looking to relocate to Pittsburgh, among others, myself) but aren't too exciting for tourists. Or rather, in Indianapolis' case, aren't too exciting for tourists who don't care about sports. The Indy500 is reason enough to cross it off my already-too-long list of places to visit. As far as other sports teams, why would I care as a tourist? They're not my teams. Sports culture is also not a factor (and perhaps even a negative mark) when considering places to relocate. When so much of Indianapolis seems focused on sports, there doesn't seem to be as much to appeal to those of us who aren't interested.
Pittsburgh is a good example of a city going through a revitalization to attract young professionals and perhaps even tourists. Food and arts culture is on the up and up there, while still being a very affordable place to live and visit. Pittsburgh is benefited by several major, world renowned universities based there. Indianapolis only has Butler, which is more well known for its study abroad programs (one of which I studied with while attending another university) than it's home campus or academics - at least outside of the midwest.
Why would sports culture discourage you from visiting the city? If you don't want to partake in the sporting events here, don't. Maybe there's nothing else here that interests you, and that's fine, but sports are a big driver in this city's development.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Your loved ones must be so delighted at this special talent.
I'm a teacher so I'm used to that kind of thing-but from college-age students. "Non-traditional" college students (aka grown-ups) rarely BS and make comments on things they haven't read.
All are cities that are probably great for people who live there (I am looking to relocate to Pittsburgh, among others, myself) but aren't too exciting for tourists. Or rather, in Indianapolis' case, aren't too exciting for tourists who don't care about sports. The Indy500 is reason enough to cross it off my already-too-long list of places to visit. As far as other sports teams, why would I care as a tourist? They're not my teams. Sports culture is also not a factor (and perhaps even a negative mark) when considering places to relocate. When so much of Indianapolis seems focused on sports, there doesn't seem to be as much to appeal to those of us who aren't interested.
