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I just stumbled across this thread and I didn't see anything from anyone that seemed to actually live in Indianapolis during this time.
I lived in Indy for over 40 years and I lived through the White Flight era.
I grew up in Irvington and at least in that area, it was all about race. People just didn't want their children being bused to black schools and vice versa. Anyone who says differently is flat out wrong.
Indianapolis has always been a simmering cauldron of racial intolerance, especially the East and South sides of town. People "Just knew" what parts of town to avoid depending on your color. If you were black, you stayed away from Beech Grove and Irvington and Lawrence. If you were white, you stayed away from North Central and Haughville. To be in an interracial relationship was dangerous and you could get hurt.
People talked of being "open-minded" in public, but in private it was different. In private, People boasted of being in the Klan or talked proudly of having family or friends in the Klan.
And for those who argue that it wasn't racial motivated, remember, it's called White Flight, not Affluent Flight.
I'm in agreement with everything you posted. I was born and raised in Indianapolis and was enrolled in the public school system during the 50s and 60s. White Flight ( period during the 50s, 60s and 70s) was racially motivated in Indianapolis. Indiana was the only midwestern state that had anti-miscegenation law on the books during the 1960s. History is what it is.
So, white flight in Indy in the 50s-70s was different from the white flight that took place in other cities in what way?
I seriously doubt it was different. It just appears that some people try to argue that whites fled to the burbs for reasons other than race. Living through it is totally different than reading about it in a book.
I am arguing that are are factors apart from race with White Flight. Yes, many whites were (and are) racist but many who fled did not just flee because they were afraid of black people. Had all those moving in been affluent and not working class and welfare class it would have played out very differently.
There is not a significant Hispanic population in Indy like Chicago but in Chicago there continues to be white flight as Hispanics take over formerly white neighborhoods (same thing is happening in some black neighborhoods as well).
Current white flight is nothing compared to the block busting when blacks moved into formerly white neighborhoods and jobs left (mostly good manufacturing jobs during the 1950s and 1960s). This destroyed much of the west and south sides of Chicago. Did the same thing to much of east and west sides of Indy.
Should these white people have stayed as their neighborhoods began to crumble and the schools got worse? No one with a choice wants their kids to attend bad schools, regardless of the color of the kids in their class.
Had more of the people moving been like Dyadic and their family, the schools would have stayed better as well as the neighborhood and more whites may have stayed. Yes, the hardcore racists may have still left but many white families would certainly not have moved if the black folks moving in next door were husband and wife attorney/doctor, which is true of 2 of the black families on the block where I live now.
Good parents make good kids was something my school bus driver told me growing up. So true.
Little hope when 77 percents of blacks are born out wedlock. For those like dyadic born into good families, things generally work out. For those without parent support and lack of positive role models, they will often fail in life and the prospects for their kids are generally even worse.
I am arguing that are are factors apart from race with White Flight. Yes, many whites were (and are) racist but many who fled did not just flee because they were afraid of black people. Had all those moving in been affluent and not working class and welfare class it would have played out very differently.
There is not a significant Hispanic population in Indy like Chicago but in Chicago there continues to be white flight as Hispanics take over formerly white neighborhoods (same thing is happening in some black neighborhoods as well).
Current white flight is nothing compared to the block busting when blacks moved into formerly white neighborhoods and jobs left (mostly good manufacturing jobs during the 1950s and 1960s). This destroyed much of the west and south sides of Chicago. Did the same thing to much of east and west sides of Indy.
Should these white people have stayed as their neighborhoods began to crumble and the schools got worse? No one with a choice wants their kids to attend bad schools, regardless of the color of the kids in their class.
Had more of the people moving been like Dyadic and their family, the schools would have stayed better as well as the neighborhood and more whites may have stayed. Yes, the hardcore racists may have still left but many white families would certainly not have moved if the black folks moving in next door were husband and wife attorney/doctor, which is true of 2 of the black families on the block where I live now.
Good parents make good kids was something my school bus driver told me growing up. So true.
Little hope when 77 percents of blacks are born out wedlock. For those like dyadic born into good families, things generally work out. For those without parent support and lack of positive role models, they will often fail in life and the prospects for their kids are generally even worse.
You sound like a bitter Stormfront poster. The out of wedlock figure for blacks is 72.2 percent not 77 percent ... for American Indians/Alaska Natives, it’s 66.9 percent; 53.5 percent for Hispanics; 29.4 percent for non-Hispanic whites; and a mere 17.1 percent for Asians/Pacific Islanders. The white number would be higher if they didn't exclude white hispanics.
72.2 percent of black babies being born out of wedlock is nothing to be proud of.
I assume you meant 1.1 trillion for African American purchasing power. Asian purchasing power is 770 billion and Hispanic purchasing power is 1.3 trillion. Native American purchasing power is 100 billion.
You should be using the 2014 numbers.
Purchasing power only tells a part of the story.
Actually, this purchasing power of blacks helps demonstrate why so few blacks have been able to get ahead (ie save). Blacks make up 13 percent of populations but outspend the rest of the population by 30 percent of their incomes. Less wealth is being retained in the black community than with other groups. If you spend everything you make you will never get ahead.
I await your response and would love to dig deeper into the economics driving this achievement gap.
All the people I know from Chicago who have relocated to Indy only look to or side and particularly nor suburbs such as Carmel and zionsville. Areas like greenwood and speedway and beech grove are not even considered and are areas I believe that will see the next major decline though I don't know if white flight will be a big thing in these areas, just more low income people, mostly lower income and less educated whites.
So that explains the reasons for the difference Ive noticed in the accents, the attitudes and just general snootiness in so many of the people I've come across who live in Carmel and Zionsville from the rest of Indy metro area and Central Indiana in general.
Last edited by Ivory Lee Spurlock; 12-29-2014 at 04:10 PM..
If you think north side of Indy is snooty you would love the North Shore of Chicago. Naperville is a pretty good match to Carmel.
North side of Indy is definitely more cosmopolitan than some other sides, with people coming from many major metro areas including Chicago. People are attracted to where the jobs are as well as better schools.
There recently was an invitational cross country meet in Rushville and something like 20 out of the top 30 finishers were from Carmel. This is at a meet with like 20 schools. Carmel would be competitive with many of the larger high schools in Chicago, where running is a pretty big deal.
When I worked in Indy I actually benefitted from the lack of development on the south side of Indy as it took me the same amount of time to get downtown from 50 miles away as my coworkers living on the north side.
You can almost sum up the differences between Greenwood and Carmel by comparing a shopping trip to Keystone at the Crossing and Greenwood Park Mall. I know I am oversimplifying but it is actually fairly spot on.
72.2 percent of black babies being born out of wedlock is nothing to be proud of.
I assume you meant 1.1 trillion for African American purchasing power. Asian purchasing power is 770 billion and Hispanic purchasing power is 1.3 trillion. Native American purchasing power is 100 billion.
You should be using the 2014 numbers.
Purchasing power only tells a part of the story.
Actually, this purchasing power of blacks helps demonstrate why so few blacks have been able to get ahead (ie save). Blacks make up 13 percent of populations but outspend the rest of the population by 30 percent of their incomes. Less wealth is being retained in the black community than with other groups. If you spend everything you make you will never get ahead.
I await your response and would love to dig deeper into the economics driving this achievement gap.
Why do you concern yourself with the plight of a group of people you obviously love to hate? You come across as a bigot with an inferiority complex and it is not a flattering look. Most people who feel superior don't concern themselves with things that they view as beneath them. This thread was suppose to be about the history white flight in Indianapolis and all you have done is talk about Chicago, Hispanics and smeared African Americans. You weren't born during that era yet you somehow know exactly what happened and why it happened. To make matters worst you aren't from Indianapolis. Your point of reference is always Chicago which isn't part of the discussion. What you're doing isn't cute nor am I being blown away with perceptive power in correct analysis. What I am however is amuse (you bring the laughs if nothing else). People who play the clown card always amuse me. With that said I wonder what is it that you see in African Americans that you hate so much about yourself? I do pray that you find peace in all that hatred that consumes you. Remember the Devil is a liar ... regards.
Dyadic let's get back to white flight. I am sure you can spend your time making personal attacks on another forum.
Many reasons behind white flight in Indy. Race is certainly a driving factor but not the only factor.
White flight continues to happen in many areas in this country, though at a much slower pace in Indy.
I grew up in southern Indiana and saw first hand how formerly decent areas declined on the east and west sides of Indy.
12 years ago while working in Indy my employer sponsored a habitat build and I saw first hand how the residents were too poor to buy market rate house but yet had money to buy 50 inch tv (which I personally helped move, it was digital tv which back then cost several thousand dollars). This was around 18th street on the east side, an area that has seen significant decline.
As I mentioned before Washington square and Lafayette square used to be decent shopping areas. Lafayette square had an LS Ayres which at the time was a pretty decent department store.
I haven't really seen a decline in areas like Beech Grove. It was blue collar and remains to this day. Greenwood is pretty much the same as well, just more dated from when I was growing up in the 1980s. It has grown significantly wi tract homes stretching into former farming areas (we used to take Acton Rd as a shortcut).
Carmel was nice but much smaller than it is now. Now, it is pretty much white collar land from zionsville to fishers and has spread further north into Hamilton County.
My favorite part of Indy btw was and continues to be along meridian north of 38th. If money were no object and I worked in Indy this is where I would live. Could always send the kids to Park Tudor.
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