2014 homocide stats Indianapolis vs Chicago (Fishers, Carmel: homes, neighborhoods, college)

[msamhunter]

Originally Posted by Toxic Toast

By that logic, the Wendy's at 24th and Meridian is downtown because regional center.

No one asked you to like it. Cities decide their boundaries. You want them different, win an election and change them. Until then, it is what they officially say it is.

[Toxic Toast]

Originally Posted by msamhunter

No one asked you to like it. Cities decide their boundaries. You want them different, win an election and change them. Until then, it is what they officially say it is.

The city can draw up whatever arbitrary boundary (it changes on every report) for its plan that it wants. That doesn't make 30th and Meridian downtown. That makes it a cohesive plan for a regional center. You are telling me you honestly think 29th and Penn is downtown; but the corner of Virginia and Grove isn't?

[restorationconsultant]

The massive gentrification of formerly crime ridden areas of Chicago has a lot to do with it and the criminal element being pushed out of the city limits.

In Indy the temporary increase in violent crime may be caused by the increasing gentrification of not only the mile square but the neighborhoods around it. The poor and the drug trade are getting pushed into increasingly smaller areas and the concentration of large numbers of criminal element in an area breeds crime.

There was a recent interview with an IMPD spokesman who said that about 200 people were responsible for the majority of all the violent crime and were notorious repeat offenders, sentencing laws may help with that issue but as they kill each other off (seems to be the trend lately) crime may go down.

Also you can't paint the safety of a city by its crime stats. If you are living in most of the downtown /near downtown neighborhoods, violent crime isn't a problem and you may never encounter it. If you live at 34th and Illinois, Haughville, or New York and Sherman, or 38 and Mitthoffer? Yes you will see violent crime. Because crime in general is being pushed out of the city core and into areas like the townships which USED to be some of the safest areas in the city. I'm sure the city is planning on gentrifying Haughville just like what is happening in Fountain Square and they have major plans in the works for more improvements along 10 th street and eastside in general JUST like the city did with Fall Creek place, which used to be a no mans land. Market forces are dictating changes in neighborhoods and proximity to downtown is leading to higher property values and less criminal element because they cant afford to live there and things like crime watches make being a criminal more difficult.

In 10 Years we will probably be talking about who dangerous Castleton and Carmel are, because the poor are getting pushed further and further out and criminality follows them. If you told people that Warren Township would be, largely black, full of Check cashing stores , Mexican restaurants and Section 8 housing/gangs and that Washington Square would be "dying mall" people would have laughed at you and thought you were crazy.....just look at what it is now. Or Lafayette Square on the west side.

Cities and crime are cyclical and as a city becomes more prosperous crime goes down because criminals cant afford to live there they move to other areas and crime stats shift as a result..

[Toxic Toast]

Originally Posted by restorationconsultant

The massive gentrification of formerly crime ridden areas of Chicago has a lot to do with it and the criminal element being pushed out of the city limits.

In Indy the temporary increase in violent crime may be caused by the increasing gentrification of not only the mile square but the neighborhoods around it. The poor and the drug trade are getting pushed into increasingly smaller areas and the concentration of large numbers of criminal element in an area breeds crime.

There was a recent interview with an IMPD spokesman who said that about 200 people were responsible for the majority of all the violent crime and were notorious repeat offenders, sentencing laws may help with that issue but as they kill each other off (seems to be the trend lately) crime may go down.

Also you can't paint the safety of a city by its crime stats. If you are living in most of the downtown /near downtown neighborhoods, violent crime isn't a problem and you may never encounter it. If you live at 34th and Illinois, Haughville, or New York and Sherman, or 38 and Mitthoffer? Yes you will see violent crime. Because crime in general is being pushed out of the city core and into areas like the townships which USED to be some of the safest areas in the city. I'm sure the city is planning on gentrifying Haughville just like what is happening in Fountain Square and they have major plans in the works for more improvements along 10 th street and eastside in general JUST like the city did with Fall Creek place, which used to be a no mans land. Market forces are dictating changes in neighborhoods and proximity to downtown is leading to higher property values and less criminal element because they cant afford to live there and things like crime watches make being a criminal more difficult.

In 10 Years we will probably be talking about who dangerous Castleton and Carmel are, because the poor are getting pushed further and further out and criminality follows them. If you told people that Warren Township would be, largely black, full of Check cashing stores , Mexican restaurants and Section 8 housing/gangs and that Washington Square would be "dying mall" people would have laughed at you and thought you were crazy.....just look at what it is now. Or Lafayette Square on the west side.

Cities and crime are cyclical and as a city becomes more prosperous crime goes down because criminals cant afford to live there they move to other areas and crime stats shift as a result..

It is too bad that to save urban Indianapolis, we feel we have to kill suburban Indianapolis.

I think the more likely outcome, is urban Indianapolis does come back. I think the outer townships continue to their downward slide, and I don't think places like Carmel are going to crumble.

Too bad.

[Humboldt1]

Affordability is great as it lowers the barriers to entry for neighborhoods. However, this also allows the poor and the crime they bring with them to come in.

In Indy burbs and neighborhoods where you have cheap tract homes that can be bought for less than 150k I see problems down the line as these cheaply built cookie cutter subdivisions age. Lot of cheaply built houses will attract Section 8 renters. Will be interesting to see what happens to outlying areas like Westfield. I think most of Avon will be okay, particularly the higher end parts.

No matter the geography the best way to keep crime out near cities is to price it out. Meridian Hills will never be ghetto so long as not just anybody can afford to live there. Having good housing stock is key but you still need to price out crime. For same reason most nicer areas of Carmel, Fishers, Geist, Zionsville and Noblesville will stay nice.

Unless you live in some rural farming area poverty and crime tend to run together.

[Serious Conversation]

Originally Posted by McdonaldIndy

Most of the higher end areas of Carmel will likely be fine 20 years from now.
However the cheap cookie cutter vinyl houses in Fishers and Carmel around 106th street and closer to the north side of Indianapolis will probably go down hill.
At the end of the day though it just depends on what neighborhood it is and who inhabits the neighborhood. If people that care about their neighborhood and provide upkeep then it should be fine. There's some 1950s-1970s areas of Indianapolis that are very fine areas even today.

I think some of those areas, particularly those closest to the north side may go downhill, but I certainly don't think it's a done deal.

Everything above 86th and between Meridian and Keystone is perfectly fine. I walk a neighborhood bounded by 96th, 91st, College, and Meridian some days over lunch, and while it's technically in the city, the neighborhood feels like an older suburb, even small town like if you disconnect the office park on the north side. I am sure there are plenty of other places on the north end of town outside of those relatively small boundaries that perfectly fine - I'm just not as familiar with them. If the blight starts spreading northward, I'd expect those neighborhoods to go before Carmel proper.

You also have Home Place, which is a neighborhood in Hamilton County sitting between 96th and I think 111th, but has not been annexed by Carmel and is full of mostly older homes. I think that could potentially decline, probably greater odds than the neighborhoods on the far north side.

[ServoMiff]

Originally Posted by Toxic Toast

16th and Washington don't intersect.

My mistake - I was thinking Washington when I meant Delaware.

Call downtown whatever you like - I go by the defined area, but you're arguing semantics.

Within a 1-2 mile radius of the city center, there are areas of Indy I would rather not be caught in anymore. My friend lived at 14th and Alabama (I think...somewhere in that vicinity) for a while in college, and his car was broken into 3 times there, and we were both victims of attempted robbery walking back to his place one night from Mass Ave.

Downtown Orlando has a pocket just a block west of their NBA basketball arena that is ranked one of the top 25 worst areas in the entire country for crime. However, downtown Orlando feels safer, as it's not overall as blighted as parts of Indy are. Even though it's equally as bad or worse.

[Toxic Toast]

Originally Posted by ServoMiff

Within a 1-2 mile radius of the city center, there are areas of Indy I would rather not be caught in anymore. My friend lived at 14th and Alabama (I think...somewhere in that vicinity) for a while in college, and his car was broken into 3 times there, and we were both victims of attempted robbery walking back to his place one night from Mass Ave.

That's a little more fair than the first comment.

[ruascott]

The poverty areas and crime aren't likely to be pushed into the outlying counties. But rather to the 'old' suburbs, that being the townships surrounding center, with the exception of probably Washington (though even some areas there).

It's pretty easy to see where gentrification is likely...midtown Indy has laid out a long term plan for everything north of downtown all the way to broad ripple. There is still a ways to go, but Fall Creek Place was such a success, look for it to be duplicated in Mapleton FC. The most stubborn area likely to be the area west of Meridian up to 38th.

The east side I believe will eventually follow the same path. Irvington will be the cultural anchor, as broad ripple was.....and then gentrification will infill from downtown to east.....which has already begun.

Center township 20 years from now will be as different now, as it is now from the early 90s. Just my opinion.

The losers will be areas like Pike, Warren, Wayne twp, in the 50s/60s/70s burb neighborhoods

[ServoMiff]

Originally Posted by McdonaldIndy

Someone that lives in California is going to be taken much less seriously than someone that currently lives in Indianapolis. Remember that.

Why do you assume that? Because you're close minded and ignorant to the fact that I might actually still be close to people in the area?

I understand that there are some minor changes to the city that happens over the course of time, but my 10 years in Indiana and continually visiting at least 3-4 times a year keeps me pretty up to speed with the goings on. If you choose to take what I say with a grain of salt, so be it.

In my eyes, The identity of Indy hasn't changed hardly at all since being labeled Naptown. Some things die and some things grow, but the overall feel of the city doesn't change much.