Will Indy build rail transit to support downtown? (closing, live)

[chazman]

I do know Indy has been mentioned as a stop on a midwest high speed rail network that radiates from Chicago and links up cities such as Indy, Cincy, Cleveland, Toledo, Milwaukee, Detroit, and St. Louis. Its sad that there seems to be so little support on the federal level, because anyone who has had to fight airport congestion at O'Hare knows there is a place for high speed rail in the country's midsection.

As for rapid transit within Indy itself, I'm sure there would be some use of a light rail or busway. There are probably not the numbers or density to support heavy rail, yet, but who knows....add some transit oriented development to a city that already has a great downtown and there may be the market for it.

[domergurl]

REM ... why do you want to know first of all and what do you think I do for a living?

Oh goodness, please don't let my rant give the impression that I want to give up, I don't!! I am a mass transit geek to the nth degree. The most freedom I ever felt was when I was car-less and depended on Metra, CTA, my feet, bike and rollerblades to get to and from work, Cubs games and bars. It's just that I've gotten those glassy eyed looks when I talk about how great it is to take a train and walk. When we lived in Fishers, the looks I got when I biked with my kids hooked on in the bike car to the grocery store! I will say that the town I'm currently in is much more bike friendly! I love that I can ride downtown to the library, to the local indie bookstore, the grocery all on safe trails or city streets with little to no traffic. Then I get the people who cannot believe that I take the train from south bend to Chicago ... why the heck else would I do otherwise?? When weather permits, I bike the kids to school, if it's over 40, we're biking.

Here's the bottom line, nobody wants their taxes to be raised to pay for a system that will not be used by the people who are paying the taxes. It seems like nothing gets past the study stage in this state. I thought that using some of the major moves cash could have helped mass transit along a bit, but so far, they are only creating more jobs by building roads. You would have thought that since the leased toll road cash could have at the very least helped upgrade the last of the great interurbans (the south shore) ... sigh ... I'm ranting again.

sorry

[supernerdgirl]

Originally Posted by domergurl

Here's the bottom line, nobody wants their taxes to be raised to pay for a system that will not be used by the people who are paying the taxes. It seems like nothing gets past the study stage in this state. I thought that using some of the major moves cash could have helped mass transit along a bit, but so far, they are only creating more jobs by building roads. You would have thought that since the leased toll road cash could have at the very least helped upgrade the last of the great interurbans (the south shore) ... sigh ... I'm ranting again.

sorry

Hell, it's still hard to convince many in "Chicagoland" that yes they NEED mass transit whether they use or not, so pay for it and get over it.

[TheProf]

Originally Posted by chazman

As for rapid transit within Indy itself, I'm sure there would be some use of a light rail or busway. There are probably not the numbers or density to support heavy rail, yet, but who knows....add some transit oriented development to a city that already has a great downtown and there may be the market for it.

Thing is, chazman, rail transit builds density along its corridors. Los Angeles, for example, was the most sprawling, light-density, car-oriented big city around. But now, with 16-year-old, growing transit network (80 miles LRT, 400 miles, commuter rail + busy Amtrak corridors, such as the 125-mile run to San Diego), it's formerly little downtown is booming with offices, apts/condos and mixed use development. Ditto areas like Hollywood, where a booming walking district and New York style mixed use condos/shops have sprouted around the Hollywood & Vine Metro subway stop...

Here in Indy, Let's take Broad Ripple, for example. Great walking district with shops, restaurants and retail, but few apts or condos. A projected North Line directly to the area would spur such high density development, making a very good area great.

If you happen on one of Chicago's CTA elevated train historical sites, you'll note some old pics where many lines when built before and after the turn of the 20th Century extended to farmland areas of Chicago. Within years, they were booming residential corridors -- RE develolpers always follow rapid rail lines. So it's a chicken and egg situation.

[domergurl]

Originally Posted by TheProf

Thing is, chazman, rail transit builds density along its corridors. Los Angeles, for example, was the most sprawling, light-density, car-oriented big city around. But now, with 16-year-old, growing transit network (80 miles LRT, 400 miles, commuter rail + busy Amtrak corridors, such as the 125-mile run to San Diego), it's formerly little downtown is booming with offices, apts/condos and mixed use development. Ditto areas like Hollywood, where a booming walking district and New York style mixed use condos/shops have sprouted around the Hollywood & Vine Metro subway stop...

Here in Indy, Let's take Broad Ripple, for example. Great walking district with shops, restaurants and retail, but few apts or condos. A projected North Line directly to the area would spur such high density development, making a very good area great.

If you happen on one of Chicago's CTA elevated train historical sites, you'll note some old pics where many lines when built before and after the turn of the 20th Century extended to farmland areas of Chicago. Within years, they were booming residential corridors -- RE develolpers always follow rapid rail lines. So it's a chicken and egg situation.

Ah yes, however the former rail line through Broad Ripple is now an asphalt walking trail (the Monon). The infrastructure exists currently from Union Station, NE of the city up to Fishers. It would need updating, but it's there.

First, they should get a rail line from the airport to downtown. That makes the most sense. Kind of like what St. Louis has. I loved taking that line when I spent a day in that great city. We can't have mass transit the likes of Chicago, but looking at what St. Louis has is a good model.

[TheProf]

Originally Posted by domergurl

Ah yes, however the former rail line through Broad Ripple is now an asphalt walking trail (the Monon). The infrastructure exists currently from Union Station, NE of the city up to Fishers. It would need updating, but it's there.

First, they should get a rail line from the airport to downtown. That makes the most sense. Kind of like what St. Louis has. I loved taking that line when I spent a day in that great city. We can't have mass transit the likes of Chicago, but looking at what St. Louis has is a good model.

First, Indy couldn't support a Chicago-sized transit system. Chicago's about 8-9 times bigger than Metro Indy. St. Louis is exactly what I had in mind: Light rail exploiting lots of rail ROWs. Many limited surface intersectons with significant grade seperation. You guys have a huge advange with Union Station-- LRT tracks could elevate next to the Amtrak tracks for the major downtown terminal. Portland's excellent MAX LRT doesn't have that, so LRT trains must ride in streets to reach downtown. I agree, an airport extension would make very good sense as a starter line. I would also branch off that line to serve the Zoo, the new Colts Stadium (Lukens?) and ending at the Indy motor speedway. These branches could potentially serve a lot of people and be built relatively cheap given the ROWs and downtown terminal.

As for the Monon walking trail, I wouldn't worry about that. If Indy was serious about laying transit in that excellent ROW that cuts right through the heart of north Indy, I think the public would gladly give it up. Heck, if push came to shove, they could easily establish a trail next to the rails.

[domergurl]

Originally Posted by TheProf

First, Indy couldn't support a Chicago-sized transit system. Chicago's about 8-9 times bigger than Metro Indy. St. Louis is exactly what I had in mind: Light rail exploiting lots of rail ROWs. Many limited surface intersectons with significant grade seperation. You guys have a huge advange with Union Station-- LRT tracks could elevate next to the Amtrak tracks for the major downtown terminal. Portland's excellent MAX LRT doesn't have that, so LRT trains must ride in streets to reach downtown. I agree, an airport extension would make very good sense as a starter line. I would also branch off that line to serve the Zoo, the new Colts Stadium (Lukens?) and ending at the Indy motor speedway. These branches could potentially serve a lot of people and be built relatively cheap given the ROWs and downtown terminal.

As for the Monon walking trail, I wouldn't worry about that. If Indy was serious about laying transit in that excellent ROW that cuts right through the heart of north Indy, I think the public would gladly give it up. Heck, if push came to shove, they could easily establish a trail next to the rails.

Indy ISN'T serious! I guess that's been my point all along. If anyone touches or tries to retrofit the Monon ... you'll have some very angry people. It just won't happen.

It's Lucas Oil Stadium.

As much as I'd love to see public transit in Indy, you won't see it for decades and if it does go through, it will go from the airport to downtown and then up to Noblesville/Cicero, max.

And then there's Union Station ... sigh. It looks like Indy would rather convert the whole darn thing to offices and retail than actually use it for what it was intended for.

Again, I would love nothing more than to see public transit in this area, but with the mindset working against it, I'm not optomistic, I will be hopeful though.

[TheProf]

Domergurl, like the saying goes: perception is reality. If you BELIEVE it can't happen, it won't. But if you believe, then anything is possible.

[domergurl]

Originally Posted by TheProf

Domergurl, like the saying goes: perception is reality. If you BELIEVE it can't happen, it won't. But if you believe, then anything is possible.

Subscribing to The Secret I see? Each week, I believe I'm going to win the lottery, but it doesn't happen. I don't think it can't happen, I believe it won't happen anytime soon.

[TheProf]

Domergurl, you're starting to sound like those conservatives yourself. Are you part of the problem? I haven't heard the tired old GM spawned "[Indy] has a love affair with its cars" bit in a while. It's such a ridiculous statement. I love my car (and it's spanking new) just as much as anyone, but that doesn't mean I, or most people, want to burn up gas and take years off my life in rush hour frustration just for the alleged "freedom" of driving my own 2-ton lizzie. That line has been dragged out by anti-transit Republicans for years.