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Old 02-23-2008, 04:26 PM
 
Location: Turn Left at Greenland
17,696 posts, read 37,839,746 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chitownwarrior View Post
Sorry to be harsh again, but its the truth.
While I don't like to stifle posters on this forum, may I interject that this is your opinion? Hey, I'm not high and mighty on Indianapolis myself (I consider myself a chitownwarrior too), but for some, not all, Indianapolis is a great place. Now, while I have issues with their sports teams, Indianapolis is a better sports town than St. Louis, sorry. Food wise, St. Louis, public transit, STL, cheap living ... it's a toss up maybe. History, STL ... weather, yuck, too humid in STL for me, but for one of the best city parks in the country, STL for sure.

I don't know, it all boils down to preference. I can always visit both places.
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Old 02-23-2008, 05:13 PM
 
Location: Southeast Missouri
5,812 posts, read 17,877,297 times
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I really like St. Louis. The Indianapolis Children's Museum was a blast, but that's all I've been to in Indiana. But St. Louis is a great city. And it can hold a candle to any other city about the same size.
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Old 02-23-2008, 05:44 PM
 
100 posts, read 218,767 times
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Ignorance is bliss? My family and I have lived in Indiana our whole lives ans we have traveled to MANY cities. Whenever I go to surrounding cities people applaud us with how clean and neat out downtown is. It definitely can't compete with Chicago, but Indianapolis has just started investing money in the downtown just 20 years ago. When was the last time you have visited? It surely is better than STL imo.
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Old 02-24-2008, 08:47 AM
REM
 
368 posts, read 948,418 times
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Arg i don't get the city data forms i will be back to post later!
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Old 02-24-2008, 09:46 AM
REM
 
368 posts, read 948,418 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chitownwarrior View Post
I understand where you're coming from. You have a lot of Indy pride, which is good, and it's normal to compare your city to other cities that are in tiers higher than yours. I understand it, and its normal.

But, I would reccommend living in other cities for a while, or visiting and spending more than a week there, for example in st. louis, before you make judgements in comparing cities. You'll find that lifestyle in those cities is far different from Indy and offer much more options than Indy. Indy lacks identity and culture, and that is evident through the numerous reviews of people you visit Indy or spend time in Indy from other cities. It's not "bad" but just not on the same tiers as other cities like stl minneapolis, detroit or cleveland because those cities have had centuries of molding and development. It's more reasonable to compare Indy to cities on similar tiers and size like columbus or KC.
I know indy isn't the best city in the world. Matter of fact i want to live in New York. Yes we do have a hard time with our identity but it's not all plain and bland as you say it is. You only know of the downtown. I'm telling you right now that their are great places in indianapolis that arent in the downtown region. We may have been in comparison to columbus and kansas city a few year ago but when the the last time you have been? If it is anythign before 2000-2008 i suggest you come back now. We have a new airport (which we be the 3rd largest in the midwest when it is opens) Colt stadium, and new skyscraper, a cultral trail downtown, and the north side is only getting richer and bigger as we speek. i suggest you watch "doing indy" it's a show only on our city. I'm not saying indy is better than stl i know for a fact that forest park is way better than anything we have in indy and sure you do have a more descent culture but with the big influx of hispanic and indians i'm sure we will have a better one. There are just SOOOO many things you don't know about indianolis wich make you wrong in many ways. If you only knew... Indy can deff compete with cities like stl and detroit. wich was voted the most miserable city in america, btw.
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Old 02-24-2008, 10:37 AM
 
Location: Chicago
395 posts, read 1,307,003 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by REM View Post
I know indy isn't the best city in the world. Matter of fact i want to live in New York. Yes we do have a hard time with our identity but it's not all plain and bland as you say it is. You only know of the downtown. I'm telling you right now that their are great places in indianapolis that arent in the downtown region. We may have been in comparison to columbus and kansas city a few year ago but when the the last time you have been? If it is anythign before 2000-2008 i suggest you come back now. We have a new airport (which we be the 3rd largest in the midwest when it is opens) Colt stadium, and new skyscraper, a cultral trail downtown, and the north side is only getting richer and bigger as we speek. i suggest you watch "doing indy" it's a show only on our city. I'm not saying indy is better than stl i know for a fact that forest park is way better than anything we have in indy and sure you do have a more descent culture but with the big influx of hispanic and indians i'm sure we will have a better one. There are just SOOOO many things you don't know about indianolis wich make you wrong in many ways. If you only knew... Indy can deff compete with cities like stl and detroit. wich was voted the most miserable city in america, btw.
I'm not from st. louis, I have family there, and visit there a lot ...and also lived a very small fraction of my life there so I know quite a bit about it. (I also did an extensive research project in school of comparing the histories of Chicago and St. Louis as they competed in the early 1900s to be the hub in the region) I live and I'm from Chicago CITY. I went to college around Indy 2002-2006, so yes, I've been there recently (end of 2006), and I've spent a decent amount in the city.

All of my out of state (outside Indiana) friends agree with me that Indy is an overrated of a city and its known for its blandness. The only people that I've met that love indiana were people that went to IU in bloomington. You talk of a "new skyscraper"...well great, but that doesn't tell me anything as someone who sees pasts skylines or "downtowns". I look for what the city is, what it gives, what its vibe is, what's its personality, what can i find there that's makes it worthwhile, etc. When I was in Indy, I felt detached from the world and actually just wanting to rather be in chicago than explore more of Indy, I just lost interest so fast. YOu get what im saying?

Domergirl, you're right, it does boil down to opinion. And from the opinion of an urban enthusiast from chicago whose spent decent time in both cities, I would have to say that at least for now and in the next 10 years, Indy doesn't have the offerings of St. Louis quite yet (probably 30 years given that stl is boiling up a huge comeback), and still suffers and image of blahness. This thread reminds me of "Portland vs. Houston" threads or "Minneapolis vs Seattle" threads...comparing cities that shouldn't be compared. Indianapolis is bland compared to larger and older midwestern cities in the midwest, if youre looking for eccentric, historic, "wow that's so cool, ive never seen something like that" cities, and you'll be dissappointed and bored quickly after moving there (as the case with my chicago friends who relocated there due to jobs) due to the lack of diversity in activities. Indy 500 is an example of something unique and so Indy, but that's IT give or take a few. Sure you have children's museums and IU basketball games, but that gets old QUICK for most people (maybe not to you hoosiers). To me everything I've experienced in indy, was been there done that... IMO, it's the epitome of Anywhere, USA. Stl on the other hand has a culture on its own, and you can really feel it right when you cross the mississippi and see the arch. You KNOW you're in a "different" place, especially in the summer when you'll think youre in a 3rd world tropical country at times cause its so freaking humid. But you'll see live jazz musicians playing in the loop, or see the st. louis walk of fame of the dozens among dozens of famous st. louisans...or see quircky urban kids, many different variety of people, blacks, arabs, asians, hispanics, locales and parties where your typical fratty boys are a minority....and night clubs and urban bars that blow indy's to the dust (not just crowds of basketball fans seeing some convention downtown like you'd see in Indy, but in stl you'd see that too). You'll find a little italy in stl, where some people are still speaking italian, an asian district, int'l grocery stores, mardis gras in a french neighborhood where i think like half a million people join and celebraty. You could never find anything like that in INDY! INdy IMO is more for the 35 year old...always lived in the midwest love sports white guy that likes american sport bars kind of town. Where i feel stl caters to a more diverse selection of people --- hipsters, the sports fan beer loving irish bar guy, college kids, internationals, club goers, etc. For restaurants, i just looked up a selection of foods. While indy has a few unique cuisiines typical for a city its size, stl's variety and diversity is I would say on the same page as larger cities like chicago, but just not in the amount of numbers and shear quantity as chicago, but really blows Indianapolis' selection and diversity away.

This is why I say you can't compare the cities! You're comparing a truly urban old historic American/once the 4th largest city in america (st. louis..or ___cleveland, detroit, baltimore) to a newer just now developing city far from urban still trying to find its identity city. Apples to oranges. Even if indy's MSA population exceeds that of these other cities or stl, (which probably won't happen in our lifetime...except for maybe cleveland), you still wouldn't be able to compare them just because they are in completley different genres of cities. True you can compare quality of life and cost of living and other quantitative measurements, but you can't compare the culture and what the city represents to the nation and its identity and its shear makeup in any shape or form .

St. louis was one of the largest cities in the country back in its heyday, so its infrastructure and makeup reflects on this...and is evident through its large stretches of urban neighborhoods of red brick homes and density and architecture. It had a summer olympics, world's fair, papal visit, world class ammenities such as their botanical gardens (which i think beats ours here), the zoo (which def. beats lincoln park zoo), distinct urban neighborhoods that i have never seen anything like in the midwest except for in chicago and minneapolis and detroit and cleveland... Its reflected in its citizens and way of life, although they suffered a political bout, large urban flight, and was at its lowest point in the 90s, but now coming back fiercly from what i understand. ST LOUIS FEELS MUCH MORE OF A BIGGER CITY THAN INDY (and has almost one million more residents) Indianapolis just doesn't have this type of molding that st. louis has had for 200+ years, and from what i've learned is older than chicago. I feel much more close to "chicago/home" in st. louis than indianapolis by a landslide (but not saying that stl compares with chicago) and other chicagoans would say the same thing.

True this is all my opinion and to some Indy is probably great, but if you are a well travelled, urban, city loving soak up all the culture in history and explorer, Indianapolis could in no way be the city for you, and you'll be heavilly dissapointed. If you say it is an amazing city, and claim to be well travelled etc and lived in other places...you're either 1.) from indiana and just defending your pride or 2.) lying and just playing devil's advocate 3.) Not an urban enthusiast who appreciates the diversity and energy of urban living 4.) Old (+35) 5.) Haven't lived in other cities larger than Indianapolis 6.) Want a peaceful quiet city that has city ammenities you need, and don't worry about culture or city excitement.

I can see though for 30 year olds it being a nice affordable place to raise a family...

I'm done, thanks for reading. I hope I informed some curious onlookers interested in this subject. For me, until i'm truly inspired by Indy, I will remain having the bland perspective I have of it and continue to inform those interested in travel of my perspective.

Last edited by chitownwarrior; 02-24-2008 at 11:41 AM..
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Old 02-24-2008, 12:05 PM
REM
 
368 posts, read 948,418 times
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A skyline is one of the things that defines a city. We have a better one. Blandness? you do know that we hold the biggest cultural event in the country? Not indiana, not the midwest, but the country. % wise we hold a black population that of new york city. I can go to places on the eastside right now and see a muslim church, germany bakery, 2 mexican neighborhoods. I'm not saying that it's better than st louis but it's more than "the 35 year old...always lived in the midwest love sports white guy that likes american sports" I already said we are getting a LARGE influx of indians and hispanics. I can find a jewish deli, japanese restaurants, Indian restaurants, eithopean restaurants, international grocery stories, and even a few cajun places. I doubt you know any of this which make you view of indy invalid. I think you are right, stl does have more diversity when it comes to ethnic culture still that being bland is far from indy. I will also say that the entire north side has less of a urban fell and more of an west side losangeles feel.
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Old 02-24-2008, 01:30 PM
 
Location: City of North Las Vegas, NV
11,890 posts, read 8,688,579 times
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Again we are comparing apples with oranges.
POPULATION is a key factor between these two cities.
Also, the fact that Indy has no waterway is another factor as already mentioned
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Old 02-24-2008, 01:54 PM
 
Location: Chicago
395 posts, read 1,307,003 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by REM View Post
A skyline is one of the things that defines a city. We have a better one.
So i guess your saying Phoenix, washington DC, Paris, all cities in europe, quebec, Portland, Milwaukee, Baltimore, stl etc. are all lesser cities because of their skylines? News to indy residents, NO, downtowns and skylines aren't what define cities.

You boast about a few tall skyscrapers, but any city could have that. Chicago's "skyline" in pictures is small compared to the buildines that stretch all the way to from SOUTH LOOP to Evanstan. Do you know how far that is? Do you know how miniscule that is to the extent of indy.

Now, do you know that the same applies for st. louis for instance. That their "skyline" stretches from downtown all the way to clayton? Do you know how far that is? If indy residents had something like that they'd be wetting themselves. The skyline for example you see of stl, is north to south, when the city itself stretches east to west, so you're not seeing the whole city.

Skyline:




So what's behind this "skyline" everyone associates st. louis with:


thats a stretch of at least 4-5 miles and thats not even including clayton below:






midtown

forest park bordering central west end


and heres some photos for a little urban perspective:









university city - washington university, fontbonne university, place where chuck berry still plays, birth of nelly, muphy lee, etc. listed top 10 must see streets in america by ANA, 2nd in midwest after michigan avenue (any response indy?)










Forest Park, home of 1904 worlds' fair, introduction of mustard, ice cream cones, iced tea, etc and summer olympics:





1904:



typical urban neighborhood park:



washington avenue:






urban living:












































I think i've made my point. Actually after searching through these photos, I really want to go to st. louis badly now!!!!! Photos thanks to urban-photos.com and Urbanstl.com!!

St. Louis is truly a remarkable urban gem in America and is a must see for curious urban enthusiasts. People with true city knowledge know its in the top 10/15 most urban cities in the country. Visit in the summer. I think its evident on who is the "winner" here and Indy shouldn't compare itself to cities with bigger and more developed stature. So REM, you were saying that a skyline defines a city? ... hmmm i'll have to disagree with that one.

Last edited by chitownwarrior; 02-24-2008 at 02:20 PM..
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Old 02-24-2008, 02:57 PM
REM
 
368 posts, read 948,418 times
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I never said a skyline is the ONLY thing that defines a city and in american culture it does play a big part in how your city is viewed. That being said there are some exceptions. You need to listen more i already said stl is more diverse. I'm not even really comparing the two any more i'm just defending indianapolis from the "the 35 year old...always lived in the midwest love sports white guy that likes american sports" sterotype that you so ignorantly put. You have said indy is a bland place when we hold the biggest cultural event in america, you said clayton was better than carmel when carmel is in fact richer and bigger than clayton and has a strong business culture (but lets not talk about that) I also love how you just took one thing i said and didn't even talk about the rest, which i had to restate here. For the last time I think in terms of Culture AND DIVERSITY STL is better, but just because it is better does not mean indianapolis is nothing. Get off you high horse already.
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