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Old 03-19-2019, 06:20 AM
 
Location: Central Indiana/Indy metro area
1,683 posts, read 2,858,022 times
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A few months back there was an article which basically predicted that suburbs around major urban centers will continue to grow. There was some belief that the older city areas would see a resurgence that might completely stall suburban growth. After the last seven to ten years it seems that the belief now is that suburban growth will continue. This seems to be the case in the Indy metro area. While the downtown core has changed dramatically in many neighborhoods, we are still seeing serious suburban growth in some areas. What I always wondered was this: Would the suburban growth continue further north in Hamilton County, or would the Fortville/Ingalls area see the growth first?

I moved to the Fortville/Ingalls area in recent years. I watched as basically every single bit of land in the far eastern Fishers/Geist area has been, or currently is being, developed. Various levels of housing has went up, but the lowest price I believe is in the low $200Ks with a few of the nicer neighborhoods starting in the low $300K range. Additionally, every smaller plot of land seems to also either have been developed, or is being developed, usually with just one or two custom homes on larger lots. From a commuter standpoint, if one worked in the Indy metro area, it would've made more since to build homes closer to McCordsville. However, it seems the driver of building these homes is Hamilton Southeastern Schools. This tells me that school choice is still a huge factor in home location. Those who can afford this level of home or debt load will pick well known districts over smaller districts like Mt. Vernon Community Schools.

I've recently been reading various news articles that report lots of housing additions are in the works for SW Madison County (Ingalls but closer to I-69) and Fortville. Fortville has two housing additions going in. One is basically "in town." The homes are going to be fairly nice, around $200Kish. They will have a lot different look than the more box/rectangle production homes, as the character is supposed to somewhat fit with the older homes that are in the town. This will basically be right where the three counties meet. The other Fortville neighborhood is south of the town near the high school. This development recently got turned down as the developer is trying to put homes on very, very small parcels and people aren't happy. They tried using the entire acreage for the development but a decent percentage of that acreage is a new town park and a retention pond from what is being reported. These homes are also on a cheaper end of costs compared to what is being built just a handful of miles away in SE Fishers.

Just north of Fortville there are three neighborhoods going in. Two near SR 13/I-69, another just to the east of there near an elementary school. I know the one near the school is on the cheaper end of costs (mid-$100K). The one off SR-13 will have homes starting at $220K and going to $325K according to a news report. There isn't much detail on the third development. It is also being handled by Ingalls. It seems Ingalls wants growth at any costs. I wish they would've required a minimum starting price of $200K per home, as the tax revenue would be much better for the influx of kids we'll likely see coming into the Pendleton school district.

Here is one article on the Madison County growth:
https://www.heraldbulletin.com/news/...5c1575374.html
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Old 03-19-2019, 01:53 PM
 
Location: Brownsburg, IN
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Thanks for the post. It is interesting to see how different communities and areas of Indy handle the expansion into the suburbs and their communities. I think communities are trying to find that balance of bringing in development and not developing too quickly. Obviously bringing in more homes and companies adds a tax base to their community to allow the community to build and provide new opportunities like parks, community centers, refurbish downtowns, etc in addition to being a town or area people want to move to and settle down in. At the same time you don't want so much development that schools, roads and overcrowding elsewhere in the community in general occurs before expansion occurs that matches it. These communities also have to look at if grocery and other shopping, park, and infrastructure can meet and keep up with the growing demand.

That is what Brownsburg is currently dealing with too. As a Town Council, and with input from the community, they are approving or turning down developments if they don't meet the criteria of what the town can handle or wants. Most of our new development the developers have to meet minimum quality materials or standards to be allowed to rezone from agriculture to residential. Brownsburg also has tried to create more apartment and mixed use development opportunities beyond the normal housing developments, but then the housing developments that are being added many times they are requiring a minimum starting price so that they can add to the taxes that will be needed to support infrastructure and schools, etc without just pricing people out of Brownsburg.

My biggest hope for all the communities, whether Brownsburg, Fortville, Whiteland, etc is that they have overall plans for the development of their town. I know Brownsburg does and probably those other communities do as well. I don't want to bash Avon because there are some very good things going on there, but it just has a feel where everything is haphazard in the development along Rockville Road and the traffic that ensues. They are working in some regards to improve that, but I also think that helps to avoid issues like you have in Franklin Central area of Marion County where there is hardly commercial or industrial so they had issues a few years ago with funding schools especially around the time of the 2008 house recession. Having a mixed base for taxes and plan for development goes a long way towards avoiding future issues and costs.
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Old 03-20-2019, 10:26 AM
 
Location: 78745
4,251 posts, read 3,886,232 times
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I bet it's due to gentrifying that going on in alot of cities all across the country. That's why the downtown area of so many cities is booming with brand new high dollar high rise condos and restaraunts and bars and high end grocery stores. The cities are venturing into a future where only the high income folks can afford to live downtown and the neighborhoods that surround it. The city will raise the property taxes so much that people who have lived in inner city neighborhoods for decades will be forced to sell and move. A developer will buy the property, tear the house down, and build a new one and sell it for nearly half a million dollars. The further you get from downtown, the less desireable the area is. The suburbs will be where the poorest of the poor live, instead of living in the inner-city like they have been since WW2 and the beginning of suburbanization. These core cities are now wanting only high income people living in their cities and let the suburbs deal with the burdens of the poor and down-trodden.
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Old 03-21-2019, 02:26 PM
 
Location: Brownsburg, IN
156 posts, read 173,338 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivory Lee Spurlock View Post
I bet it's due to gentrifying that going on in alot of cities all across the country. That's why the downtown area of so many cities is booming with brand new high dollar high rise condos and restaraunts and bars and high end grocery stores. The cities are venturing into a future where only the high income folks can afford to live downtown and the neighborhoods that surround it. The city will raise the property taxes so much that people who have lived in inner city neighborhoods for decades will be forced to sell and move. A developer will buy the property, tear the house down, and build a new one and sell it for nearly half a million dollars. The further you get from downtown, the less desireable the area is. The suburbs will be where the poorest of the poor live, instead of living in the inner-city like they have been since WW2 and the beginning of suburbanization. These core cities are now wanting only high income people living in their cities and let the suburbs deal with the burdens of the poor and down-trodden.
I would agree with this sentiment in both many of the suburbs and downtown Indy. The gentrification is the way that many people price out those who might be less desirable because they don't have the money of most of their neighbors or are minorities or pick your group that people may not want living in a certain area.

While I think that what you describe is definitely happening near downtown, I disagree that all of Marion County will have that happen to it. Unless laws are passed I think sprawl and suburbanization will continue. Just look at any major cities on the East and West Coast and even Detroit or Chicago and you see the outward trend. Sure some young professionals and wealthy are moving back downtown, but generally they are the ones without kids. Most people with kids still want the yard or community for their kids. I also think that unless IPS sees a significant turnaround or overhaul of sorts schools will be a deterrent. Yes there are many great IPS teachers and students, but I think just if you polled people or perception is not high on IPS. Therefore until schools in downtown Indy can shake off that stigma it'll be hard to see that shift you speak of to suburbanization dieing. If what you speak of were happening we would see more of what Europe and South America is like with regards to how cities are laid out with the suburbs being the poorest. That is not the case currently in most of America and definitely not in Indy. Pockets of wealth and gentrification yes, but not entirely. And again if towns, like the OP mentioned, say no to certain developments due to not being high quality, expensive enough, etc you won't see the suburbs go that route yet either.
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Old 03-23-2019, 08:41 PM
 
Location: Tennessee
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Northern Hamilton County may eventually grow, but it is extremely inconvenient to the major job centers south of 465.

I'd draw an east-west "slice" from where SR38 intersects US-31 as the current practical limit. I'm going to exclude the lake houses along Morse going toward Cicero as that's kind of a special case. Anything north of that divider is going to be a difficult haul back to anything beyond 465. There simply isn't much access in the northern part of the county. Fortville and Ingalls are closer to the interstate and much more convenient.
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Old 04-04-2019, 12:04 PM
 
Location: 78745
4,251 posts, read 3,886,232 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestsideMac View Post
I would agree with this sentiment in both many of the suburbs and downtown Indy. The gentrification is the way that many people price out those who might be less desirable because they don't have the money of most of their neighbors or are minorities or pick your group that people may not want living in a certain area.

While I think that what you describe is definitely happening near downtown, I disagree that all of Marion County will have that happen to it. Unless laws are passed I think sprawl and suburbanization will continue. Just look at any major cities on the East and West Coast and even Detroit or Chicago and you see the outward trend. Sure some young professionals and wealthy are moving back downtown, but generally they are the ones without kids. Most people with kids still want the yard or community for their kids. I also think that unless IPS sees a significant turnaround or overhaul of sorts schools will be a deterrent. Yes there are many great IPS teachers and students, but I think just if you polled people or perception is not high on IPS. Therefore until schools in downtown Indy can shake off that stigma it'll be hard to see that shift you speak of to suburbanization dieing. If what you speak of were happening we would see more of what Europe and South America is like with regards to how cities are laid out with the suburbs being the poorest. That is not the case currently in most of America and definitely not in Indy. Pockets of wealth and gentrification yes, but not entirely. And again if towns, like the OP mentioned, say no to certain developments due to not being high quality, expensive enough, etc you won't see the suburbs go that route yet either.
It will be interesting to see how the gentrification of Indianapolis will effect the demographics of places like Carmel and Fishers, and even further out, Noblesville and Pendleton, in the next 30 or 40 years, as the poor and lower middle income are priced out of Indianapolis and have to move.
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Old 04-07-2019, 02:43 PM
 
Location: Tennessee
32,677 posts, read 27,190,831 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivory Lee Spurlock View Post
It will be interesting to see how the gentrification of Indianapolis will effect the demographics of places like Carmel and Fishers, and even further out, Noblesville and Pendleton, in the next 30 or 40 years, as the poor and lower middle income are priced out of Indianapolis and have to move.
There are many areas within the city limits that I don’t see getting better any time soon. Carmel is highly desirable and I doubt that will change even over the long term.
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Old 04-08-2019, 07:49 AM
 
Location: Englewood, Near Eastside Indy
8,802 posts, read 16,254,242 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivory Lee Spurlock View Post
It will be interesting to see how the gentrification of Indianapolis will effect the demographics of places like Carmel and Fishers, and even further out, Noblesville and Pendleton, in the next 30 or 40 years, as the poor and lower middle income are priced out of Indianapolis and have to move.
I think the more likely outcome is so called "poor and lower middle income" neighborhoods will settle in the outer townships of Marion County. In some respects, we are seeing that happen already.
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Old 04-08-2019, 09:21 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
32,677 posts, read 27,190,831 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toxic Toast View Post
I think the more likely outcome is so called "poor and lower middle income" neighborhoods will settle in the outer townships of Marion County. In some respects, we are seeing that happen already.
I agree. There are places in the outer townships that are technically city limits but in reality are suburban to even quasi-rural that are probably not going to gentrify or appreciate like the better parts of the city or the more desirable suburbs.
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Old 04-09-2019, 01:19 PM
 
Location: Brownsburg, IN
156 posts, read 173,338 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivory Lee Spurlock View Post
It will be interesting to see how the gentrification of Indianapolis will effect the demographics of places like Carmel and Fishers, and even further out, Noblesville and Pendleton, in the next 30 or 40 years, as the poor and lower middle income are priced out of Indianapolis and have to move.
It will be interesting how gentrification affects Indy, but I do not think it'll be movement into Hamilton County. I think it'll be into the other suburbs and counties. I think as one poster said the further you get from 465 the less appeal those areas will have. Just look at areas of Westfield north of 32 near Grand Park. There isn't as much development there. In fact most of the development is East and West south of 32 until you get closer to 69. Obviously sprawl will continue, but I think it will slow unless 31/Meridian in Marion County becomes more like another interstate instead of stop lights. That is a hike to get downtown from Westfield.

Your lower income definitely can't afford to move further from the jobs they can get. Others who might live in those areas won't want to add another 15-30 minutes to their commute one way. I know many people are fine with long commutes, especially if they are coming from other major cities with worse commutes, but I can't see that being the case for that many people leaving Carmel to go further north and therefore opening up room for the lower income. Zionsville has been very selective of the type and lowest priced homes of communities being added in their area and lower income families won't be able to move that way.

However, I think the people in the outer suburbs of Marion County will continue to move to the adjacent suburbs outside Marion County like Fortville, New Palestine, Brownsburg, Avon, Mooresville, Whiteland, Franklin, etc. The people being displaced by gentrification in inner areas will then move to the outer suburbs of Marion County. That's what I see happening as areas are built up and redone. There will definitely remain pockets that no one wants to touch in Indy, but I don't see Hamilton County gaining much of that poor and lower middle income.
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