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Old 06-21-2019, 05:49 PM
 
Location: Indianapolis, East Side
2,062 posts, read 1,022,603 times
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There's a lot of traffic, and the drivers are rude. Can't blame it on the amount of traffic; drivers there were rude when I started driving in the 80s.
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Old 06-22-2019, 02:48 PM
 
Location: Central Indiana/Indy metro area
1,617 posts, read 2,568,327 times
Reputation: 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheerbliss View Post
The lack of scenery hasn't stopped people from moving to eastern Colorado, Texas, Arizona, Las Vegas or Atlanta. Nor has natural beauty kept people in upstate New York, West Virginia or coastal California. It's a factor for some people, of course, but a good living and the prospect of a good future is more important for most.
People won't necessarily move in or within an hours drive of amazing scenery, but I feel many want ot be within a reasonable drive. All the places you listed, someone can drive a handful of hours and be in some of the most scenic areas of the country. Atlanta is close to the Smokies, and I think most of Colorado, Arizona, and Nevada area scenic throughout. Texas I don't know much about, but could their beaches be a huge draw? Do they have nice beaches?

The other areas are examples of what happens when government just pushes people too far. Taxation, gun regulation, winter weather, etc.. All those things can cause some people to finally throw the towel in. Then you factor in obscene and ridiculous housing costs in these areas. More and more people are finding out that just because their governments can spend like fools and carry huge debt loads, individuals actually get foreclosed, sued, etc. when they incur unsustainable debt amounts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sheerbliss View Post
Personally, I don't care for anything dry and brown. Others don't like flat terrain. There's quite a bit of all three out west.
From what I can tell reading these articles and other forums, the SE of the US is winning people from New England constantly. People claim housing costs, taxes, and winter weather as the main factors driving them south. Sounds like many are staying east as they might still have family up in the NE.

My opinion is that the west is also winning because it offers that amazing diversity, both in scenery/outdoor options and climate. You can get hot or mild summers, nice or harsh winters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivory Lee Spurlock View Post
Bloomington, West Lafayette, Muncie and Terre Haute should be ok, but I wonder what will become of towns like Marion and Logansport.
Good points about higher ed, but I'll say that higher ed has reached peak insanity. People are taking note and the whole traditional college life is being questioned as "is this really a needed rite-of-passage?" by the younger parents and students. The for-profit places have and continue to fold and the smaller not-for-profit private colleges are having issues, some having to close the doors. The big universities likely won't close, but the income taxes they provide to their hometowns might take a serious hit because wages are going to have to be scaled back and the bloated administrations trimmed. Places like Marion and Logansport are going to likely get worse. Poverty will bring addiction, crime, etc., similar to the poor areas of major urban centers. Really things are already at that stage. The question is will things get worse? If manufacturing places decide to start locating or relocating closer to cities, these smaller cities are toast.
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Old 06-22-2019, 03:08 PM
 
Location: Central Indiana/Indy metro area
1,617 posts, read 2,568,327 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation View Post
This is a beautiful townhome with higher end finishes, etc., but won't sell thirty minutes from the nearest community hospital and no employment centers nearby. Dining is basically limited to fast food and an Applebee's.

https://www.realtor.com/realestatean...-57041?view=qv
I checked that listing out. I can't figure out why governments and people are making these decisions to try and locate new jobs and growth in stagnate or declining areas. There seems to be a very strong idea in this country by some that there are still enough people that still long for that "small town" living lifestyle. I'm not seeing that at all.

I used to sometimes listen to Greg Garrison when he was on the radio at WIBC. Years back, he was making a comment about small towns in Indiana not being able to bring in young people. I think it was related to a news article about the topic. He made a comment like "No one wants to live in small town Indiana?" as if he was completely shocked young people don't want to go to places that offer them nothing. Garrison was an attorney in Indy. He likely has done very well financially. At one point I know he was invested in businesses in Story Indiana and read he liked to hangout in that area of the state on the weekends. His comment sounded as if he was completely out of touch with the reality that has hit the very small towns and cities. There are not enough good paying jobs and what jobs there are, the wages are stagnant and there is really no growth potential even if you put in decades at the job.

One place near where you live I've looked at is Newport, TN. They have a Walmart and Lowes for shopping. The town is in the mountains, close to Douglas Lake. It is really close to Gatlinburg and all that area has to offer. The problem is, there isn't much there job wise. It is an hour drive to Knoxville for jobs. Here in Indiana, people would drive an hour for a good paying UAW job and even work weekends due to the nice OT. Gas was cheaper, cars were cheaper, pay was substantial, benefits great. Today, people can't afford and don't want hour long drives to work. It doesn't matter if the housing is cheaper and the area is surrounded by scenery and outdoor offerings. Thus when I read articles about Newport, TN, they weren't all that positive.

Last edited by indy_317; 06-22-2019 at 03:17 PM..
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Old 06-22-2019, 04:48 PM
 
Location: Indianapolis, East Side
2,062 posts, read 1,022,603 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indy_317 View Post
People won't necessarily move in or within an hours drive of amazing scenery, but I feel many want ot be within a reasonable drive. All the places you listed, someone can drive a handful of hours and be in some of the most scenic areas of the country. Atlanta is close to the Smokies, and I think most of Colorado, Arizona, and Nevada area scenic throughout. Texas I don't know much about, but could their beaches be a huge draw? Do they have nice beaches?
I've been to all of those places except for Arizona and Atlanta. For the most part, I wasn't impressed with the scenery. (Eastern Colorado, which is almost half the state, looks just like western Kansas.)

Personally, I'm more interested in what I have to look at day in and day out than what I'd see on the odd weekend getaway. You couldn't pay me enough to trade my pretty drive to work through Indianapolis and Carmel for my old commute up and down Broadway in Denver.
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Old 06-23-2019, 02:12 PM
 
Location: Tennessee
29,235 posts, read 22,054,867 times
Reputation: 36175
Quote:
Originally Posted by indy_317 View Post
I checked that listing out. I can't figure out why governments and people are making these decisions to try and locate new jobs and growth in stagnate or declining areas. There seems to be a very strong idea in this country by some that there are still enough people that still long for that "small town" living lifestyle. I'm not seeing that at all.

I used to sometimes listen to Greg Garrison when he was on the radio at WIBC. Years back, he was making a comment about small towns in Indiana not being able to bring in young people. I think it was related to a news article about the topic. He made a comment like "No one wants to live in small town Indiana?" as if he was completely shocked young people don't want to go to places that offer them nothing. Garrison was an attorney in Indy. He likely has done very well financially. At one point I know he was invested in businesses in Story Indiana and read he liked to hangout in that area of the state on the weekends. His comment sounded as if he was completely out of touch with the reality that has hit the very small towns and cities. There are not enough good paying jobs and what jobs there are, the wages are stagnant and there is really no growth potential even if you put in decades at the job.

One place near where you live I've looked at is Newport, TN. They have a Walmart and Lowes for shopping. The town is in the mountains, close to Douglas Lake. It is really close to Gatlinburg and all that area has to offer. The problem is, there isn't much there job wise. It is an hour drive to Knoxville for jobs. Here in Indiana, people would drive an hour for a good paying UAW job and even work weekends due to the nice OT. Gas was cheaper, cars were cheaper, pay was substantial, benefits great. Today, people can't afford and don't want hour long drives to work. It doesn't matter if the housing is cheaper and the area is surrounded by scenery and outdoor offerings. Thus when I read articles about Newport, TN, they weren't all that positive.
Granted, that listing was reasonable at the time. There was a lot of investment at the time. Problem with the small town jobs is that the small towns will use tax property abatement and other limited time offers to attract the jobs. When those incentives expire, the jobs likely go with them. That’s kind of what happened in Lebanon, VA - the incentives are mostly gone, the government contracting business has its own issues, and the remaining jobs are folding into the Dallas offices. Meanwhile, you have a lot of relatively nice housing way out in the middle of nowhere for a comparative song, but no jobs and no one wants to live an hour from a decent hospital, restaurant, etc.

Newport is a crime ridden hellhole. Cocke County has a well-deserved reputation for lawlessness. I was arrested the next county over a couple years ago, and the courts down there are completely good old boy. There’s no way I’d ever live there - I don’t even like passing through.

I work for the largest employer in my local area. There are rumblings that my team’s jobs may not be safe. There are basically no comparable places for me to work here. I’d likely lose at least a third of my income to remain local. Issues like this are major headwinds for their housing markets, new business creation, newcomers coming in, etc.
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Old 06-25-2019, 08:47 AM
 
Location: Central Indiana/Indy metro area
1,617 posts, read 2,568,327 times
Reputation: 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation View Post
I work for the largest employer in my local area. There are rumblings that my team’s jobs may not be safe. There are basically no comparable places for me to work here. I’d likely lose at least a third of my income to remain local. Issues like this are major headwinds for their housing markets, new business creation, newcomers coming in, etc.
I read about Newport's issues concerning drug addiction and crime. Unfortunate, but sounds like similar issues in many smaller cities and towns.

Hope your job issue works out. I've always had a very stable job/career here in Indy, but the downside of the path I took has limitations as well and isn't easily transferable. This has been changing more and more over the last decade or so, but it is time for me to change paths. One thing I want is a skill where I can go almost anywhere and find at least decent paying employment, relative to the cost-of-living in the area. I also always advise people to live at frugal as possible, not really live a hermit or miser lifestyle. Buy decent used vehicles, pay down debt, don't buy a home unless you're staying for a while, etc.. Makes it easier to deal with job issues that come up in life.
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Old 06-25-2019, 06:41 PM
 
Location: Indianapolis, East Side
2,062 posts, read 1,022,603 times
Reputation: 5064
I happened across an article about growth in the Midwest. Almost all of the fastest-growing cities are under half a million people. https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/ar...reat-recession
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Old 06-29-2019, 11:32 PM
 
Location: Tennessee
29,235 posts, read 22,054,867 times
Reputation: 36175
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheerbliss View Post
I happened across an article about growth in the Midwest. Almost all of the fastest-growing cities are under half a million people. https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/ar...reat-recession
Would love to see a real breakdown of this. Metros that small generally don't generate enough jobs to get traction.
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Old 06-30-2019, 07:20 AM
 
Location: Central Indiana/Indy metro area
1,617 posts, read 2,568,327 times
Reputation: 1626
Just came across another article that linked to a study on city affordability. Some of the midsized metros like Indy are still in the "affordability" group (as defined by those who published the study). Some of the much smaller cities are on the list as well.

Indianapolis ranked 8th on a list of the top ten most affordable US cities in the major housing market group. When looking at all markets, South Bend and Fort Wayne were tied at 18th place (with several others). Cincinnati (which includes some of Indiana) and Evansville both came in at 33rd. Indy is #49 on this list.

https://www.axios.com/cities-no-one-...bc281a420.html

http://www.demographia.com/dhi.pdf
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Old 07-03-2019, 07:34 PM
Status: "So happy that I finally live in Texas" (set 13 days ago)
 
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
4,098 posts, read 2,680,021 times
Reputation: 1472
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheerbliss View Post
I've been to all of those places except for Arizona and Atlanta. For the most part, I wasn't impressed with the scenery. (Eastern Colorado, which is almost half the state, looks just like western Kansas.)

Personally, I'm more interested in what I have to look at day in and day out than what I'd see on the odd weekend getaway. You couldn't pay me enough to trade my pretty drive to work through Indianapolis and Carmel for my old commute up and down Broadway in Denver.
If you don’t mind me asking, what color is the dirt in western Kansas and eastern Colorado? Don’t get me wrong, but isn’t “Colorado” derived from the color red in Spanish? I also would like to know what the natural vegetation and scenery is like in eastern Colorado and western Kansas, so please fill me in on what it’s like there if you wouldn’t mind.
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