What about Franklin Township? Good or Bad? (Indianapolis, Lawrence: for rent, daycare)

[FT mom]

High taxes that keep getting higher. 2008 tax cap in Indianapolis is 1% and of course the school system is asking for another 0.5% to give teachers raises and fund their massive transportation system. Schools are better than IPS but barely pass state average. STAY AWAY! If I can sell my house and get out of here, I will!

[chalcedony]

It's great to see so many shills for suburban sprawl here. Do you want Marion County to empty out completely? What do you think will happen to those cushy jobs if all of Indianapolis becomes a giant slum? How do you sell a blighted city to people planning on locating their businesses here? As another poster mentions, Detroit isn't having much luck of it.

Eventually those problems (i.e. ethnic diversity) will reach to suburbs and the test scores will go down there too. Do you just keep moving farther out? The fact remains that Franklin Township has some of the best rated schools in Marion County--they will never be as good as the posh northern suburbs, but housing costs are lower and for people who don't want to live in complete homogeneity, schools such as Franklin Twp and Perry Twp still have a lot to offer and your child will get a good education. You can't base everything on ISTEP scores; even in rich places Center Grove, the results are often going down, and those declines are not necessarily directly correlative to school quality. Much of comes with broader socioeconomics, immigrant populations, English as a Learned Language, etc. Franklin Township will have these to contend with at a greater level than suburban schools; that doesn't make the system bad. See if you can research the details of the schools themselves by what programs they offer, maybe talk to a few teachers, etc. That will tell you more than the aggregate numbers on a website.

[Rambone]

Originally Posted by chalcedony

Eventually those problems (i.e. ethnic diversity) will reach to suburbs and the test scores will go down there too. Do you just keep moving farther out?

Yes.

I moved to a new housing addition in Franklin Township in 1999. We were one of the first houses. The area had a "small town" feel, which was what we were looking for. My job required me to live in Marion county, so this is the best I could do in my price range.

Not liking the caliber of people moving into the neighborhood when the banks started giving $120,000 loans to anyone with a pulse, we sold (luckily) when the neighborhood started going a bit downhill in 2003 and bought a 1/2 acre lot out further in the township. We built a house, and are relatively happy here. It's not in a vinyl village, so no overbearing homeowner's association or houses built on top of one another.

Still....the township is getting more populated, and the first signs of "cancer" are spreading. One apartment complex that used to be nice has started accepting section 8. Of course, they are not all bad people, but no one can deny that thuggery is much more prevalent in these types of communities. The majority of problems in the schools used to come from the "northern community" bused-in students....now they are starting to move here.

My daughter is graduated from Franklin Central and received a good education. She is in college now for nursing. My son is 15, and has 3 years of school left. When he's graduated, we're out of here, hopefully.....if we haven't been overrun with inner-city thugs ruining the schools and driving down property values.

So yes, the answer is "move further out." If you don't HAVE to live in Marion county....don't. Many of the communities in the "donut" counties are much safer, have less traffic, and have better schools. I don't owe anything to this city, and I have no interest in sacrificing my family's quality of life for the pipe dream of a safe and clean urban utopia. There is no such thing, there never has been, and there never will be. More population ALWAYS means more congestion, more problems and more crime.

No thanks. I'll take one house in the sticks, please!

[Zoo Animals On Wheels]

Originally Posted by chalcedony

Eventually those problems (i.e. ethnic diversity) will reach to suburbs and the test scores will go down there too. Do you just keep moving farther out?

If you're smart, that's exactly what you do. If you're unfortunate enough to buy a house in an area that is showing signs of decay, why sit tight while your neighborhood spirals down the drain? Better to get out as soon as possible.

I have relatives who bought in Eagledale in the mid-'60s. They decided to just stay put, too. "Nobody's gonna make US move!" Now there are three generations living in the middle of a swamp of section-eighters, drug-dealers, meth-heads...hearing gunshots is not an unusual occurrence. What in the world induces people to stay in an environment like that if they don't have to?

[chalcedony]

Originally Posted by Rambone

Yes.


So yes, the answer is "move further out." If you don't HAVE to live in Marion county....don't. Many of the communities in the "donut" counties are much safer, have less traffic, and have better schools. I don't owe anything to this city, and I have no interest in sacrificing my family's quality of life for the pipe dream of a safe and clean urban utopia. There is no such thing, there never has been, and there never will be. More population ALWAYS means more congestion, more problems and more crime.

No thanks. I'll take one house in the sticks, please!

This attitude is precisely why the collar townships are experiencing some of the troubles they have. A complete lack of responsibility. "I don't owe anything..." We owe it to the city for originally functioning as a concentration of industries and skill sets that attracted the sort of capital that, in turn, sustains the jobs we have. Even if you are self-employed, you owe it to the city for bringing people together to form a clientele base that supports your enterprise.

It will catch up with you in your homogeneous 'burbs, and then what... Obviously you keep moving, right? The city doesn't owe you a job, but with an attitude of abandonment held by so many people, that job could very well leave for a city where the population seeks to address its problems rather than run away from them.

Fortunately there are some who are more committed to the city than that. They'll be the ones encouraging economic development by improving quality of life so the escapees can stay fat and happy with their job and big cheap houses in the neighboring countryside.

[Rambone]

Originally Posted by chalcedony

This attitude is precisely why the collar townships are experiencing some of the troubles they have. A complete lack of responsibility. "I don't owe anything..." We owe it to the city for originally functioning as a concentration of industries and skill sets that attracted the sort of capital that, in turn, sustains the jobs we have. Even if you are self-employed, you owe it to the city for bringing people together to form a clientele base that supports your enterprise.

It will catch up with you in your homogeneous 'burbs, and then what... Obviously you keep moving, right? The city doesn't owe you a job, but with an attitude of abandonment held by so many people, that job could very well leave for a city where the population seeks to address its problems rather than run away from them.

Fortunately there are some who are more committed to the city than that. They'll be the ones encouraging economic development by improving quality of life so the escapees can stay fat and happy with their job and big cheap houses in the neighboring countryside.

Cheap houses? Yeah....I'll take my cheap $180,000 2000 square foot ranch in a peaceful area over your trendy condo in the ghetto any day of the week. I think we'll get by without the head shops, tattoo parlors, gay bars and other things that pass for "culture" and "diversity" in the big city. If I ever feel the need for a $5 cup of coffee, even Starbucks has had the good sense to move out here with us.

The jobs aren't going anywhere, so long as the area surrounding Indianapolis has the good business sense to make them feel welcome. Plenty of lower taxes, nicer areas, and cheaper land to start businesses in the burbs. And a better base of workers, to boot.

The only people I owe are my family, who I owe the most peaceful and happiest life that I can provide, and my employer, who I owe an honest day's work for an honest day's pay. I don't suffer from white liberal guilt, and have no problem whatsoever with moving away from losers who can't keep their neighborhoods together without the nanny state's constant attention and babysitting.

You go right ahead and commit your bleeding little heart to your grandiose idea of a city living in harmony, which I'm sure is achievable with just one more little tax increase. I'll commit to my family and their health, happiness and safety.

[chalcedony]

Originally Posted by Rambone

Cheap houses? Yeah....I'll take my cheap $180,000 2000 square foot ranch in a peaceful area over your trendy condo in the ghetto any day of the week. I think we'll get by without the head shops, tattoo parlors, gay bars and other things that pass for "culture" and "diversity" in the big city. If I ever feel the need for a $5 cup of coffee, even Starbucks has had the good sense to move out here with us.

The jobs aren't going anywhere, so long as the area surrounding Indianapolis has the good business sense to make them feel welcome. Plenty of lower taxes, nicer areas, and cheaper land to start businesses in the burbs. And a better base of workers, to boot.

The only people I owe are my family, who I owe the most peaceful and happiest life that I can provide, and my employer, who I owe an honest day's work for an honest day's pay. I don't suffer from white liberal guilt, and have no problem whatsoever with moving away from losers who can't keep their neighborhoods together without the nanny state's constant attention and babysitting.

You go right ahead and commit your bleeding little heart to your grandiose idea of a city living in harmony, which I'm sure is achievable with just one more little tax increase. I'll commit to my family and their health, happiness and safety.

I never said my heart bled. Though you've made your own political stripes clear from the start.

Thanks for helping to articulate the attitude that got so many moderates to vote for Obama in the last election.

Fortunately we have mayors and other civic leaders completely divorced from politics who care about far more than what happens in their cul-de-sac.

[Rambone]

Originally Posted by chalcedony

I never said my heart bled. Though you've made your own political stripes clear from the start.

Thanks for helping to articulate the attitude that got so many moderates to vote for Obama in the last election.

Fortunately we have mayors and other civic leaders completely divorced from politics who care about far more than what happens in their cul-de-sac.

Off topic...but idiot moderates always swing whichever way the wind blows. There is nothing in the middle of the road but yellow stripes and road kill. With a liberal republican and his dingbat swimsuit model vice presidential candidate running against a hopey-changey rock star with all of the substance of styrofoam packing peanuts, there wasn't much for conservatives to vote for. You want big government, or bigger government? Add in a healthy dose of white guilt and 98% of a certain race voting on the basis of color (but they are not racist, of course), and Dear Leader was a shoo-in.

Guess it's not so bad, though. The One is so ineffectual, it's laughable. Almost a year into his term, here is a list of his accomplishments:

.................................................

Uh...well, I can't think of any right now, unless you count a hissy fit and typical Chicago thug politics to attempt to silence freedom of a press that doesn't worship him. (Thank God at least one network still understands the job of a journalist vs. a marketing agency) Oh, and he's thinking really hard about Afghanistan. Really, he is.

Where is Reagan when you need him?

[grmasterb]

Boy, this thread got off track.

[domergurl]

yea ... please get back to the issue at hand. I doubt any of he politicians mentioned know what Franklin Twp. is ...