Indianapolis or Pittsburgh (Fort Wayne, Columbus, Lawrence: find a job, neighborhood, pharmacist)

[plaidmom]

Originally Posted by LIS123

This is a good post. It's often hard to say city A is better than city B b/c of X, Y and Z. It's usually more of a vibe/overall feel that defines one place over another. I'm moving to Indy soon and it did seem pretty slow to me. It's definitely safer and cleaner than many other cities, but the overall feel was lacking. That opinion may change.

Thanks for taking that in the spirit in which it was offered.

One city is not "better than" nor "worse than" the other. They just offer different things.

Indy feels like a large, sprawling town, more than a city. Clean, modern, easy-to-navigate. Good employment opps and low housing prices make it an ideal city for many young families.

Good luck with your move!

[domergurl]

Originally Posted by LIS123

This is a good post. It's often hard to say city A is better than city B b/c of X, Y and Z. It's usually more of a vibe/overall feel that defines one place over another. I'm moving to Indy soon and it did seem pretty slow to me. It's definitely safer and cleaner than many other cities, but the overall feel was lacking. That opinion may change.

I've always said this and it gets a lot of Indy people up on their haunches for some reason ... Indianapolis is nice ... it's just nice.

[grmasterb]

Originally Posted by plaidmom

Attend CMU (sorry, sorry! )

Ride an Incline
Duquesne Incline, historic cable car railway serving commuters and tourists since 1877, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

Drink Beer in Church
Church Brew Works, Award-Winning Microbrewery and Restaurant

Ride your Bicycle to Washington D.C.
Allegheny Trail Alliance - Maps and text describing a trail system that will connect Pittsburgh PA with Washington DC

So those are just fun and quirky things.

What makes Pittsburgh more city-like than Indy is hard to define. Things are just more "tight" and close. Neighborhoods have a distinct "vibe" (The Strip, Squirrel Hill). It's possible to live car-free in Pittsburgh, in Indy that is more problematic. Pittsburgh is also closer to major East Coast cities (NYC, DC, Philly) and one can access those by rail. Also closer to the East Coast (OP mentioned fear of being land-locked).

So, if Indy could pick up IU and Kirkwood Ave and 4th(?) Street and plop them next to Butler, schooch them both closer to Broadripple, then expand both Mass Ave and Fountain Square (and possibly Lockerbie), bring the hills of Brown County to Meridian-Kessler, and plunk the whole thing on the shore of Lake Monroe/and/or the Ohio river, with daily rail lines connecting us to Chicago? That would make it kind of like Pittsburgh. Hope that helps.

Actually, Indy does have a daily rail line to Chicago on Amtrak. I don't recommend it, however, as it takes forever to get there via rail. Can't be much different getting from Pittsburgh to the east coast cities as Pittsburgh is not on the Acela line.

My question pertained to how Pittsburgh supposedly has so much more to do. I can counter each of those points. Indiana, for example, is working on a trail system to connect towns and cities. The question had nothing to do with which city felt more urban or dense.

[LIS123]

Originally Posted by domergurl

I've always said this and it gets a lot of Indy people up on their haunches for some reason ... Indianapolis is nice ... it's just nice.

It maybe nice, but it seems kind of boring. There were no shortage of people walking around downtown, but the city didn't seem to have as much of an energy that you'll find elsewhere. Kind of hard to explain. I'll find out for myself soon!

[domergurl]

LIS ... I think you'll find Indy to your liking politically. It's not a slam either ... I really think you'll like it.

[Toxic Toast]

Originally Posted by LIS123

It maybe nice, but it seems kind of boring. There were no shortage of people walking around downtown, but the city didn't seem to have as much of an energy that you'll find elsewhere. Kind of hard to explain. I'll find out for myself soon!

It is not hard to explain to those who get what you are saying. Indianapolis is what it is, and I would not have it any other way. But, this is not the most "exciting" place on the planet.

Still, there are lot hidden gems in Indy, and Indy is not the type of city that wows people with excitment. You have to learn to find the fun here. It is not hard to find, but it is not served on a platter for you either, if you know what I mean.

[grmasterb]

Originally Posted by Toxic Toast

You have to learn to find the fun here. It is not hard to find, but it is not served on a platter for you either, if you know what I mean.

Are you saying that Indy's is not an "in your face" kind of town?

[sweetana3]

I agree that it is "not in your face". You can find affinity groups but they are not shouting all the time. For example, we have a very large and social Indian (India) population but they live all over. We dont have enclaves of ethnic settlers. We have a Chinese Association but no Chinatown. Etc As a result, there are a wide variety of ethnic activities but throughout the year.

It feels as though Indy is much more a family town that can accomodate the church goers and those that would rather stay home.

[chalcedony]

Originally Posted by domergurl

I've always said this and it gets a lot of Indy people up on their haunches for some reason ... Indianapolis is nice ... it's just nice.

Hey all, I've only contributed briefly but I've read the postings here somewhat frequently. Domergurl, I've seen you offer a number of very thoughtful responses that are often dead-on. However, if people are "up on their haunches" when you bash Indianapolis (which, let's face it, you do, and have done on this threat as well) it carries a tenor of condescension that sometimes suggests that those who disagree with you just aren't well traveled or they would know better. Perhaps it's just me, but that's what your posts convey, and perhaps that's why some find it so objectionable.

I'm well-traveled, grew up in Indy, visited Pittsburgh several times and actually considered moving there at one point. I really like the city. That said, I also like Indy and feel it my have a rosier future.

I would agree with Domergurl and others who say Pittsburgh has a more "big city feel". It's a much older city and matured long before the automobile--when Pittsburgh was booming, Indianapolis was a mid-sized country depot, kind of like Des Moines might be thought of today (which is also growing rapidly now). However, Pitt took a huge hit after the collapse of the steel industry, and though it has cleaned up many of the hulking wrecks of factories, the economy is still horrible in the region. It's losing population. Not just the city due to white flight, but the METRO AREA (i.e., even the suburbs are losing population).

I thoroughly disagree that Indianapolis is homogenous. That was probably true fifty years ago (even thirty years ago), but economics have favored Indy over Pitt and Pittsburgh, despite a wealth of intact old Eastern European neighborhoods, has nothing in the way of contemporary immigration. You'd be hard-pressed to find a local Hispanic area there, or very many Asian enclaves. Whatever cosmopolitan vibe Pittsburgh has is mostly due to its major universities (Pitt and Carnegie Mellon in particular draw lots of Asians) but I'm not convinced too many of these high-skilled immigrants remain in Pittsburgh after graduation.

Pittsburgh has better neighborhoods than Indy--let's face it, urban neighborhoods are not Indy's strong suit (though it's definitely getting better). Squirrel Hill, as someone mentioned, Mount Washington, the nighlife of the Strip District, Shadyside, etc are all stable neighborhoods in Pittsburgh with great walkability. The bad neighborhoods, however, seem far worse than Indy's and many of the suburbs of Pitt are also desperately poor. Downtown Pittsburgh seemed dead after work hours to me, and my friend who lives there vouched for it. He just finished med school and, like virtually everyone else in his program, is leaving town.

My impression is that the cost of living in the two is comparable. Pittsburgh has glorious views due to its spectacular topography, and classy old neighborhoods with lots of character--but the economy is so bad that homes really don't appreciate at all (less even than Indy) and my impression is that it's a dirt cheap city to live in. Crime in Pittsburgh city limits is apparently lower than Indy, though that may also be because some of the worst neighborhoods (the true ghettoes) in Pittsburgh are actually in the suburbs, where crime can be intensely concentrated. Crime in the suburbs of Indianapolis is virtually unheard of.

So it's a toss up I'd say. Pittsburgh has a great urban experience to offer, and is probably a great place to be a student. I'd be apprehensive about moving there for a job, because if that job dries up, will you have another opportunity locally? Though less opportunities for walkable urban living, Indy is a more stable bet in that regard, with generally good schools outside of the stinkbombs in IPS--and yes, Pike/Warren/Ben Davis/etc would still offer a good well-funded academic program though with a bit more of that, ahem, diversity than you'd get in Plainfield or Carmel. Unfortunately, most of the good urban neighborhoods in Indianapolis feed into IPS. However, the fact that Indy is the fastest growing larger metro area in the Midwest (only Des Moines is growing faster, I believe) suggests that plenty of people are finding that it being "nice" is good enough, or maybe that many of them are finding it far better than nice.

[domergurl]

see ... I say Indy is nice and I get "you're so condescending" and "bashy" ... phooey! I say plenty of nice things about Indy. Do I "bash" the colts ... hecks yea! But my saying that Indy (and I'm talking Marion County and the collar counties surrounding it because so many people work in Indy and live in the metro area) is homogenous is true. There aren't any ethnic centers in Indy as say ... uhhhh, Pittsburgh. Indy is a lot like Columbus Ohio. I've often tempered my "bashing" to the fact that Indianapolis is one of the newest, if not THE newest cities in the country, definitely the midwest. It was created with a stroke of Dick Lugar's pen a couple decades ago. Indy is still finding itself. Pittsburgh is an established old city that has it's soul and feel.