I-465 tanker incident brings back idea of Commerce Connector--opinions? (Indianapolis: how much, construction)

[Ravekid]

This incident recently prompted a letter to the editor from Don Henderson, president of the Pendleton Town Council. In his letter, Don brought back the idea of the Commerce Connector (or as I called it, rural I-465). As one who practices being prepared and such in life, I do think that I-465 is a weak link. Had this tanked down more damage, obviously we could have looked at repairs taking a long time. If the Commerce Connector was tax driven, not toll based, I wouldn't support it. To me, any taxes used to build an outer loop could be saved as an emergency road fix. That way, if one of our major interstates gets damaged to a point where traffic can't use it, this money would be tapped for 24/7 repair construction. If you work 24/7, things can actually get done pretty fast.

I personally support the underlying idea of the Commerce Connector, though I didn't support the route as initially planned. Our state roads are being used as interstates in some instances, and traffic is a nightmare in town with all the semi-trucks.

Living and being familiar with east central Indiana/Hancock Co., I would like to take a county road east of St. Rd. 9/Greenfield, and turn it into an interstate by-pass limited access roadway. This road would run from I-69 south with interchanges at St. Rd. 234, I-70, US 40, US 52, St. Rd. 44, and I-74. This would get a lot of trucks off St. Rd. 9, but I am not sure how many trucks would actually use this road....if the need is really that great. Do any truckers know this: If I am trucking from Cinnci up I-74 and I need to go to Anderson, IN, would it be common for a semi-tractor trailer to drive up I-74, all the way to I-465, wrap around to I-69, and continue to Anderson, or would semi-drivers exit I-74 at Shelbyville and head up St. Rd. 9 to Anderson?

Even if we don't build a fully separate road, we really need to consider four or five mile by-pass routes around our smaller to mid-sized towns. The truck traffic on 9 really isn't that bad until you are in town. Maybe instead of a brand new road, just start building limited access by-pass routes around the less populated/dense areas of places like Pendleton, Greenfield, Shelbyville, etc..

If this country continues to grow with people, then obviously we will need an outer I-465 in the future. More and more people will flock to the major urban centers for jobs and such, and that means even more traffic on I-465. I also wonder how much more traffic will be dumped once I-69 is finished and tied into I-465. Louisville has I-264, but also I-265. Other cities seem to have a smaller bypass, but maybe on one side of the city, there is an interstate level roadway.

Opinions on this?

[krock1dk]

465 is definately a weak link. Its overcrowded, overused, and often underfunded and undermaintained. A commerce connector is greatly needed. I mean how else are you supposed to get from Franklin to maybe Noblesville any easier? Considering developement well beyond 465, the Commerce Connector makes perfect sense. But then again, common sense isnt the norm in the Hoosier state.

[krock1dk]

465 is definately a weak link. Its overcrowded, overused, and often underfunded and undermaintained. A commerce connector is greatly needed. I mean how else are you supposed to get from Franklin to maybe Greenfield any other way, without having to go from two-lane state road to state road? Considering developement well beyond 465, the Commerce Connector makes perfect sense. But then again, common sense isnt the norm in the Hoosier state.

[wh15395]

I have to disagree because 465 is not a weak link yet, but it will be in the future. The only area on 465 that is really overused is on the north side from 865 to 69 and on the south side from 74 to 65. Plus these areas are only very congested during rush hour or after a colts game, not any other time. With that said the commerce connector at least need to be studied because of the growth in the suburban counties, but I don't think it will really be needed for at least 10 years or more.

[dave.dawsn]

I think a transit solution in the Indianapolis area is needed, but new roads are not the answer. Take cars off the streets and highways by giving commuters a common-sense public transit option, be it light rail, a comprehensive bus network with dedicated lanes (no traffic, limited stops), or a combination of both. People proved they will use public transit last year when gas was expensive, and now that it's back to mid-$2 range, the conversation has trailed off again.

Start by designating (or building, if necessary) bus lanes for direct routes from the north side 'burbs and from Johnson County to downtown. Next, build a light rail line from the airport to Union Station. Finally, build light rail lines due north from downtown to Clay Terrace in Carmel, south to Greenwood, west to a central point for Avon, Plainfield and Brownsburg commuters to park and ride, and northeast to Fishers/Noblesville. Of course this would take a long time to complete, but it is a common sense way to mitigate congestion as the greater Indy population continues to grow.

[wh15395]

Originally Posted by dave.dawsn

I think a transit solution in the Indianapolis area is needed, but new roads are not the answer. Take cars off the streets and highways by giving commuters a common-sense public transit option, be it light rail, a comprehensive bus network with dedicated lanes (no traffic, limited stops), or a combination of both. People proved they will use public transit last year when gas was expensive, and now that it's back to mid-$2 range, the conversation has trailed off again.

Start by designating (or building, if necessary) bus lanes for direct routes from the north side 'burbs and from Johnson County to downtown. Next, build a light rail line from the airport to Union Station. Finally, build light rail lines due north from downtown to Clay Terrace in Carmel, south to Greenwood, west to a central point for Avon, Plainfield and Brownsburg commuters to park and ride, and northeast to Fishers/Noblesville. Of course this would take a long time to complete, but it is a common sense way to mitigate congestion as the greater Indy population continues to grow.

I agree with you for the most part that public transit should come first. But before anywhere else the light rail should go to Fishers because that is where most people use the commuter bus and that is where the most traffic is. The possibly Carmel because there is no easy way to get downtown (Meridian Street is not easy).

[Toxic Toast]

Originally Posted by wh15395

I agree with you for the most part that public transit should come first. But before anywhere else the light rail should go to Fishers because that is where most people use the commuter bus and that is where the most traffic is. The possibly Carmel because there is no easy way to get downtown (Meridian Street is not easy).

No way. The fine folks who moved to Fishers knowing it was a mess can wallow in their own self-inflicted mess. Marion County will not approve to pay for a train line that will in effect be a Fishers commuter train.

In fact, Greg Ballard has said that the first line should go from the airport to downtown if anything like that is to be built.

[dave.dawsn]

Originally Posted by Toxic Toast

No way. The fine folks who moved to Fishers knowing it was a mess can wallow in their own self-inflicted mess. Marion County will not approve to pay for a train line that will in effect be a Fishers commuter train.

In fact, Greg Ballard has said that the first line should go from the airport to downtown if anything like that is to be built.

I agree 100% that the first line should be from the airport to downtown.

I also understand the negative sentiment towards the suburb-dwellers, particularly since a lot of the "best and brightest" often choose the 'burbs over the city (and take their high taxable incomes with them). Still, there are some suburban/residential areas of Marion Co. that would be served by the proposed NE line as I understood it...stops in Fishers but also at 96th, 71st, 62nd, and Kessler? I admit I may be wrong about that but I seem to remember there being a six-stop line planned.

Bottom line: traffic isn't good for anyone...it causes pollution, it's a waste of time, and its expensive for everyone (gas, wear and tear on vehicles for the individual; road upkeep for the community). We need a regional solution for our transit problems in Indy, and I feel that the suburban component of Marion County serves as kind of a buffer between true city dwellers and Fishers exiles.

[wh15395]

Originally Posted by Toxic Toast

No way. The fine folks who moved to Fishers knowing it was a mess can wallow in their own self-inflicted mess. Marion County will not approve to pay for a train line that will in effect be a Fishers commuter train.

In fact, Greg Ballard has said that the first line should go from the airport to downtown if anything like that is to be built.

Thats why I don't think Marion County should pay for it. If it serves both Counties it should be split in half. Also the reason it should go to Fishers first is because the tracks are already there. That means it is perfect to see how it works, while not blowing a TON of money, although it will cost a lot. But I do see why you would consider the airport, that makes sense too.

[chalcedony]

Originally Posted by Ravekid

If this country continues to grow with people, then obviously we will need an outer I-465 in the future. More and more people will flock to the major urban centers for jobs and such, and that means even more traffic on I-465. I also wonder how much more traffic will be dumped once I-69 is finished and tied into I-465. Louisville has I-264, but also I-265. Other cities seem to have a smaller bypass, but maybe on one side of the city, there is an interstate level roadway.

Opinions on this?

Superficially it seems like the next stage for development, but this goes against the face of every study ever performed on good city planning. Widening roads in the face of growing traffic is, as one person put it, "like curing obesity by loosening your belt". All it does is encourage more cars to travel on it, which in turn encourages further development, which almost instantly puts pressure for the demand for new road widening. Roads do not generate taxes because they are public ROW and only cut into people's personal property and industry and anything else that can be used by the private sector. A second beltway has not made Louisville a bigger or more prosperous metro than Indy. No new beltways have been built in decades. If Metro Indy keeps growing it will need to think of other ways to diversify its transportation options--in fact, leadership should be thinking about that right now (and they are).