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Old 11-08-2010, 11:04 AM
 
369 posts, read 525,715 times
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Well, the new plan is out: Indy Connect | A Central Indiana Public Transportation Initiative

What I see: They are trying to bribe the surrounding counties that may get one, two "express bus" routes by adding "trails" and "pathways." Pathways are bike lanes either on or near the road, on-the-road bikelanes I call suicide lanes, as car vs. bike is never good. The trails are just Monon style trails from what it sounds like. So it appears the goal is to win over support from people in the surrounding counties by giving them their own Monon Trail type system.

This is still nothing more than taking money from the many, so a few can benefit. While I like the idea of putting sidewalks in some of the more suburban counties, and the trails, I'm not going to vote so I can pay the same amount in taxes as someone in Fishers and Greenwood will and they will get more bus options, and a rail option.
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Old 11-08-2010, 12:05 PM
 
Location: Englewood, Near Eastside Indy
8,259 posts, read 13,526,401 times
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The overhaul to the bus system in this city is long overdue. The routes along 38th and 86th in particular are long overdue. As far as the bus aspect is concerned, it is a long overdue improvement. The line along Rural/Keystone is also a long overdue improvement. As far as those folks who want to ride the bus, but do not because the system currently is not user friendly, I do think this will motivate those folks to bus more often.
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Old 11-08-2010, 03:16 PM
 
81 posts, read 219,010 times
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As someone who is typically a believer in public infrastucture investments I am not too excited about this plan.
- The bus system is hanging on by a thread now. They're betting that a better bus system will get more people to use it and increase revenue. Thats a big bet and I'm not sure there is alot of evidence to back it up.
- Rail systems are nice but whats the real benefit? Indianapolis doesn't have a problem with acessibility. Have you ever had a hard time getting in and out of downtown with your car? I haven't. And its cheap to park. I can understand why people in Chicago dont want to drive through an hour long traffic jam and pay $30 to park...so a rail there makes sense. I dont see the sense of it in Indy.
- As for the bike routes and paths - OK, thats pretty cool. I see it as more of a lifestyle enhancement for those of us who like to bike - like a park or something. If thats the goal then fine. If the goal is to reduce traffic then the bike routes are a waste.
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Old 11-08-2010, 05:06 PM
 
2,248 posts, read 6,037,250 times
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I was naive to think that transportation planners would create something special here. As usual, they continue to miss the bus (pun certainly intended).

I keep hearing people say "there's no need for a mass transit system," "the city was designed for cars," etc. This, in my mind, is the crux of the argument. You have to be proactive and attack the problem before it happens, among other reasons. That's the whole point of transportation planning.
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Old 11-08-2010, 05:06 PM
 
Location: San Diego
1,760 posts, read 2,935,413 times
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If you watch the video of this someone makes a comment about what will happen if it only passes in Marion and Hamilton counties. I agree that if they are the only two counties to pass it, they should be the only ones who benefit. I was nervous that the other seven counties would stop anything from happening at all.
Transport plan boasts rail, bus routes
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Old 11-08-2010, 09:06 PM
 
Location: Indianapolis and Cincinnati
682 posts, read 1,387,611 times
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The idea that you can apply a european model on this region is ridiculous. Indy once has a reasonably efficient mass transit system, the interurban. It worked because people could not Afford cars.

We are a car society and I agree that we need some 'forward thinking' steps at better transportation option (car pool lanes, express lanes) but you have to have a 'complete transport sysstem' for this to work and you have to change the mindset of people who are used to driving everywhere they go. Short of 7 buck a gallon gas,
people are not likely to change in any numbers that make the cost realistic.

Back in the 1980's we had trolly buses that ran downtown and through some of the near downtown neighborhoods. Bach then those neighborhoods were empty and there was nothing downtown. That has changed. I say start local downtown, see if we can empty out some of the parking garages and get people used to using public transport.

Start small, see IF it works then expand from there. But you really have to fix Metro before anything else happens.
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Old 11-09-2010, 07:02 AM
 
369 posts, read 525,715 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colts View Post
I keep hearing people say "there's no need for a mass transit system," "the city was designed for cars," etc. This, in my mind, is the crux of the argument. You have to be proactive and attack the problem before it happens, among other reasons. That's the whole point of transportation planning.
The problem is that instead of big business destroying the middle class, big government is going to destroy the middle class. K-12 taxes, federal taxes, state taxes, local taxes, mass transit taxes, CIB taxes....DOES IT EVER END? What goes is a "living wage" when government, or quasi-government agencies, take 75% of that wage? Talk about trickle up poverty.

I agree we should be proactive, but to me, that would include drawing up plans, and getting the land in place. It wouldn't be to build anything. A slightly expanded bus service wouldn't be a bad issue, but hub and spoke won't work. What you need is a bus that runs all of 38th street, but it can't stop ever 15 feet. The bus system needs to force people to actually walk up to a half mile to board the bus. Not only that, express bus service wouldn't be bad at all. The entire concept of rail needs to be quashed, immediately. It is way too costly, especially given the current economic situation.

At this time, there is no need for trains, light rail or otherwise. There is a slight need of a bus that runs 96th Street, 86th Street, 38th Street, Southport Rd., County Line Rd., etc.. Draw up the plans for right-of-way for a rail system, and get started buying up whatever property one can. Then sit on it until such time that Indy actually has the density to support rail transit. It isn't here at this time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wh15395 View Post
If you watch the video of this someone makes a comment about what will happen if it only passes in Marion and Hamilton counties. I agree that if they are the only two counties to pass it, they should be the only ones who benefit. I was nervous that the other seven counties would stop anything from happening at all.
It should be pay to play, but it really should be EQUAL pay to play. I shouldn't have to pay the same tax increase in Greenfield as someone in Fishers. They are getting much, much more than me, so why should the surrounding counties who are only getting bribed with express bus service, trails, and paths, pay exactly the same tax rate?
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Old 11-09-2010, 05:35 PM
 
Location: On the Rails in Northern NJ
12,381 posts, read 22,620,647 times
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Interesting article out today on the Transport Politic...


New Transit Plan for Indianapolis Emphasizes Frequency Over Splash The Transport Politic
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Old 11-09-2010, 08:13 PM
 
3,111 posts, read 6,741,089 times
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I am all for public transportation, but Indy is not a city for rail. A better bus system is the way to go.
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Old 11-09-2010, 09:05 PM
 
2,248 posts, read 6,037,250 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravekid View Post
I agree we should be proactive, but to me, that would include drawing up plans, and getting the land in place. It wouldn't be to build anything.
Allocating the vast majority of funds to roadways and improved bus coverage is not proactive. It's like putting a band-aid on a gunshot wound.

Quote:
The entire concept of rail needs to be quashed, immediately. It is way too costly, especially given the current economic situation. Draw up the plans for right-of-way for a rail system, and get started buying up whatever property one can. Then sit on it until such time that Indy actually has the density to support rail transit. It isn't here at this time.
Indianapolis had an extensive streetcar & interurban system generations ago, so the idea that local or commuter rail transit can not/will not work are invalid. Additionally, so-called "suburban" cities in the South seem to be able to implement various forms of rail transit. You seem to be confused on the concept of commuter rail, which does not require massive density to be implemented.

Decades of complacency with the awful transit policy in place has affected public opinion so badly that people are apparently satisfied with having such a mediocre system. Furthermore, inefficient planning policies in place for the last sixty years have favored low-density, suburban development, which reinforce this notion and have essentially sealed the city's fate in regards to improved transit, density, environmentalism, etc.

Last edited by Colts; 11-09-2010 at 09:17 PM..
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