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Old 04-29-2011, 11:51 PM
 
16,308 posts, read 25,262,012 times
Reputation: 8302

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German court orders wireless passwords for all - Technology & science - Security - msnbc.com
Quote:
BERLIN — Germany's top criminal court ruled Wednesday that Internet users need to secure their private wireless connections by password to prevent unauthorized people from using their Web access to illegally download data.
Internet users can be fined up to euro100 ($126) if a third party takes advantage of their unprotected WLAN connection to illegally download music or other files, the Karlsruhe-based court said in its verdict.
Those the trade in kiddy porn and download illegal music, movies, files, or spend their time hacking into companies and banks would really love it if their innocent neighbors were required to provide them untraceable access to the internet.

People that don't download music today because they know they can be tracked and sued by the RIAA, will download till the fill all their disk space and chuckle when the sheriff delivers the lawsuit papers to you.
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Old 04-30-2011, 10:27 AM
 
1,441 posts, read 2,571,467 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asheville Native View Post
German court orders wireless passwords for all - Technology & science - Security - msnbc.com

Those the trade in kiddy porn and download illegal music, movies, files, or spend their time hacking into companies and banks would really love it if their innocent neighbors were required to provide them untraceable access to the internet.

People that don't download music today because they know they can be tracked and sued by the RIAA, will download till the fill all their disk space and chuckle when the sheriff delivers the lawsuit papers to you.
Figuring this out is not as impossible as you might think.

NY case underscores Wi-Fi privacy dangers - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110424/ap_on_hi_te/us_wi_fi_warning - broken link)


Securing it would have prevented it in the first place, but catching someone is possible.
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Old 04-30-2011, 10:54 AM
 
16,308 posts, read 25,262,012 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brill View Post
Figuring this out is not as impossible as you might think.

NY case underscores Wi-Fi privacy dangers - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110424/ap_on_hi_te/us_wi_fi_warning - broken link)


Securing it would have prevented it in the first place, but catching someone is possible.

Fortunately they caught that sick f*** who was a neighbor. It doesn't really say how they caught the neighbor, only for distributing kiddy porn. I suspect other things he did lead to his arrest. Had this been a "drive by" where they parked in front of his house and downloaded all that kiddy porn then driven home, the only way to catch them is if they do something else that gets them caught. The guy got caught because he continued his obsession with kiddy porn, not because his connection was detected after the fact.

There are very few houses where I live but there is a road below my house within reasonable WiFi range. About 2 AM I saw a car parked there and the because I look down on the road could see a laptop in the driver lap.

Was he trying to connect to my wireless to check his email? or was it a sick f*** wanting to download kiddy porn. Don't know, don't care, my wireless is secured. When I flipped on the flood lights, he immediately closed the laptop and drove off.

If my wireless had been open, he could have connected, downloaded the kiddy porn, shut down his laptop and gone home. There would be no record of him ever connecting to my network. If you look at the status of the router while he is connected you will see the MAC address of his computer (pretty useless in tracking) and once he disconnected, that is also gone, as they are not stored except for a few minutes in ARP cache.

Since the MAC address never leaves the network it is on, as the router discards it before forwarding the traffic, knowing the MAC is only useful if you actually get hold of that specific laptop.
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Old 04-30-2011, 11:02 AM
 
16,308 posts, read 25,262,012 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brill View Post
Figuring this out is not as impossible as you might think.
If you know something about networks, and detecting a wireless host connection after the fact, and how to track that back to the individual user please share that with us.

I've worked in networking since the early 90's and based on everything I know about how they work, I say it can't be done. If it can, I really would like to know how to do it, if you would please share that information.

Thanks
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Old 04-30-2011, 08:58 PM
 
Location: Oxford, Ohio
901 posts, read 2,043,834 times
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Well, I read the article - just so people won't accuse me of not reading it - and I don't care what the rationale is, I will not embrace nor endorse an open wireless system.
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Old 05-01-2011, 04:59 PM
 
Location: sowf jawja
1,940 posts, read 8,303,557 times
Reputation: 1042
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asheville Native View Post
Fortunately they caught that sick f*** who was a neighbor. It doesn't really say how they caught the neighbor, only for distributing kiddy porn. I suspect other things he did lead to his arrest.

from what i read in a related article elsewhere;

there was some type of username for distributing and downloading the material that was also being used at a local university. the man they arrested was a student at that university, so it made sense it would be him.
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Old 05-02-2011, 08:10 AM
 
Location: HoCo, MD
4,584 posts, read 8,194,016 times
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Any effort to improve IT controls, I'm for it. However, I don't agree that we "NEED" to have open wireless across the board (not to mention that the article even indicated that the necessary controls are not technically there).

Its definitely a nice to have - but "social responsibility" typically speaks to obligations that keeps the society from danger or hardship. Having access to WiFi in the current world where we have just about everything connected already sounds more like someone wanting the one last thing they don't have regularly.

The article also links to other people who they implied that "have laid the groundwork"... well, Bruce Schneier's blog is in there - where he says he pretty much keeps his wifi open. Of course, he also goes on by saying that he pretty much did a risk assessment of his situation - and felt that it wasn't a much of a risk. Not much of a "groundwork" - but more of why he does it.

There's a different between generosity and entitlement.

I'd have no problems giving my neighbor access to my wifi if he asks (if if his router blew up or something). But its a bit different if he felt I should leave it open because he has a right to it.....
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Old 05-02-2011, 08:21 AM
 
Location: Cary, NC
34,296 posts, read 59,614,483 times
Reputation: 33331
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asheville Native View Post
If you know something about networks, and detecting a wireless host connection after the fact, and how to track that back to the individual user please share that with us.

I've worked in networking since the early 90's and based on everything I know about how they work, I say it can't be done. If it can, I really would like to know how to do it, if you would please share that information.

Thanks
Yeah, I remember you...
Several months ago on this topic, you got me scared about people tapping my unsecured wireless for criminal purposes, and I wired the house with CAT6 for gigabit networking.

No worries now.

We do the same things in the same places with the same machines, and for us, wireless networking was over-rated, under-performing and over-exposed.
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Old 05-02-2011, 05:39 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,663 posts, read 75,366,687 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrcousert View Post
If everyone had an open router, there would be no way the police could pinpoint you for crimes commited on your line.

.
I refuse to accept the position that the general public ought to be denied access to technological advances, because it makes it too hard for the police state to monitor and regulate the citizenry and arrest those misbehaving.

It's like banning newspapers and magazines because it makes it too hard for the police to catch kidnappers, who cut words out of the paper and paste them into ransom letters.
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Old 05-02-2011, 06:07 PM
 
24,503 posts, read 35,961,779 times
Reputation: 12847
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
I refuse to accept the position that the general public ought to be denied access to technological advances, because it makes it too hard for the police state to monitor and regulate the citizenry and arrest those misbehaving.

It's like banning newspapers and magazines because it makes it too hard for the police to catch kidnappers, who cut words out of the paper and paste them into ransom letters.
Ok. But the general does have access to the internet. The current system works just fine. The only thing that I am hoping for is that the internet turns into a pay-for-content infrastructure. Scrap all the ads.
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