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Old 06-20-2011, 10:32 AM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
11,815 posts, read 13,956,611 times
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Good post Normander. And I agree.
But the point I am trying to make is really regarding:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomander View Post
manage(ing) the security of my information.
Facebook only gets the info YOU CHOOSE TO SHARE.
You can put in ONLY your first and last name and nothing else. Hell, you don't even need to use a real name, but that's kind of pointless.

This paranoia where people think if I just sign up with Facebook they will know everythying about me..... needs to stop.
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Old 06-21-2011, 08:47 AM
 
13,072 posts, read 11,574,423 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrine View Post
Good post Normander. And I agree.
But the point I am trying to make is really regarding:

Facebook only gets the info YOU CHOOSE TO SHARE.
You can put in ONLY your first and last name and nothing else. Hell, you don't even need to use a real name, but that's kind of pointless.

This paranoia where people think if I just sign up with Facebook they will know everythying about me..... needs to stop.
With your first and last name, combined with generalized comments you may make, common aliases you use, pictures you may post, etc... it is rather easy for someone to specifically identify you (remember public information is accessible, so with a name, it becomes a matching game to the various general statements made by a given person over the course of their internet presence).

It is not any specific mention to which may provide such, but the culmination of all to which most people do not consider at each point they may provide a specific information mention thinking that the context they provide in that circumstance hides its relevance. With that first and last name, one could begin to search the web with specific lists targeting key words relevant to your specific mentions and then referencing such matches to your public information. It may take a lot of time, but it is possible and often how ID theft rings obtain such.

I am not trying to say people should avoid the internet or refuse to use a Facebook type of site, for instance... my wife uses it (oops there went some cross referencing information), however she uses a full alias for her name and has purposefully filled out false information in her profile to confuse any specific attempt at collecting from her. She also though doesn't use it for much other than to browse other people leaving personal contact through direct programs (a private non-specific web page with private log on to which she personally hands out the address and pass to those she knows) of the nature that reduces public targeting as such.

The problem is more so with people relying on the "security" features of a site like Facebook to protect and keep their information private, which the site is not designed nor equipped to do at any professional level to which is common with properly secured infrastructures. Your manner of use of such as you described you apply is likely not as much of a risk as say a person who fully fills out their information, posts private discussions and pictures thinking that information will be kept private (to which Facebook updates and changes have accidentally turned such information public or through various lax design approaches, created security holes to which that information may be easily obtained).

In the case of private information on sites as such, I merely stated I see no need to use them as if I wish to provide anything specific of such I can easily do it through my own controls and limitations to access completely under my authority. That was my main point.

Past that, people do need to be concerned about what they put on the internet and how it may be connected to their public information as this is the true risk. If someone doesn't absolutely need to provide their real name and information on such a site, they really shouldn't be.
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Old 06-21-2011, 09:06 AM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
11,815 posts, read 13,956,611 times
Reputation: 8047
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomander View Post
With your first and last name, combined with generalized comments you may make, common aliases you use, pictures you may post, etc... it is rather easy for someone to specifically identify you
Ok. And do what? What are "we" so paranoid about??
Someone might find out I have a yellow dog?!? OMG NO!!!!
Someone might find out I have a small business? NO!!!!! That would be BAD for business.
What? What is someone going to do with this info that concerns people?


Quote:
(remember public information is accessible, so with a name, it becomes a matching game to the various general statements made by a given person over the course of their internet presence).
Why would someone do all that? Out of 300,000,000 Facebook users why is someone going to hunt me down on Facebook??? I have no enemies, I promise you. There is nothing that interesting about me that would make anyone want to hunt me down.
I have identity protection. Would you like my social security number?

Look, Facebook wants as much info about you so they can advertise to you. That's it. That's as nefarious as it gets. I don't really care if Facebook wants to sell me a coke.

The pros far outwiegh the cons.



Follow these general rules and Facebook will be enjoyable.
  • Don't post anything you wouldn't say loudly enough to be overheard in public saying
  • Keep your personal drama off of Facebook
  • Don't post pictures you wouldn't post in a public place
I help run a website for car enthusiasts. You can find out A LOT more about me on that site then you can on Facebook.
Not to even mention my LinkedIn profile which is much less private then Facebook is.
It is your job to protect your privacy. I don't dispute that. But NOT using FB over "privacy paranoia" means you are missing out on a fun and valuable internet service. Period.
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Old 06-21-2011, 09:26 AM
 
16,308 posts, read 25,260,164 times
Reputation: 8302
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrine View Post
Ok. And do what? What are "we" so paranoid about??
Someone might find out I have a yellow dog?!? OMG NO!!!!
Someone might find out I have a small business? NO!!!!! That would be BAD for business.
What? What is someone going to do with this info that concerns people?
With enough data mining (with your help by your FB postings) it is easy enough to go out and buy a $50,000 vehicle and drive off into the sunset with it. In a couple of months the dunning notices will start coming to your house, your address, in your name, because you have not been making the payments on the vehicle you didn't know you bought.
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Old 06-21-2011, 09:59 AM
 
2,182 posts, read 4,705,982 times
Reputation: 1206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asheville Native View Post
With enough data mining (with your help by your FB postings) it is easy enough to go out and buy a $50,000 vehicle and drive off into the sunset with it. In a couple of months the dunning notices will start coming to your house, your address, in your name, because you have not been making the payments on the vehicle you didn't know you bought.
All that information is public already. First and last names are everywhere, they're not a secret. That's how you identify yourself, that's why they exist. There used to be these things that we used called phone books, that had thousands and thousands of names in it. I don't see them around much anymore though.

Of course it's possible, but if it were really that easy to recreate an identity, there would be havoc, everyone would do it.

This conversation has strayed from Facebook security and floated on down Paranoia River.
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Old 06-21-2011, 11:49 AM
 
Location: Tejas
7,562 posts, read 16,553,448 times
Reputation: 5112
Its far from paranoia, its extremely easy to harvest information from Facebook and other places. Far too many people put so much information out there and cry becasue it gets misued somehow. If more people were 'paranoid' about their information we would have a lot less problems.
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Old 06-21-2011, 11:54 AM
 
13,072 posts, read 11,574,423 times
Reputation: 2608
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrine View Post
Ok. And do what? What are "we" so paranoid about??
Someone might find out I have a yellow dog?!? OMG NO!!!!
Someone might find out I have a small business? NO!!!!! That would be BAD for business.
What? What is someone going to do with this info that concerns people?
Why are you being so defensive? I make a logical and properly supported position. I am not saying you are wrong for doing such. You say you pay attention to what your provide, I am merely pointing out that even so, there is a risk of such attention that would otherwise not be gained as it is the more you place your presence in the online world.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrine View Post
Why would someone do all that? Out of 300,000,000 Facebook users why is someone going to hunt me down on Facebook??? I have no enemies, I promise you. There is nothing that interesting about me that would make anyone want to hunt me down.
I have identity protection. Would you like my social security number?
There are lots of reasons, identity theft, info gathering for robbery, burglary, etc... There are numerous crimes against people in this issue that happen daily on the internet. You think you have no enemies, but you do not know for sure when it concerns the internet. Maybe there are some people you argued with on the boards somewhere and they took whatever you said personal and because they are unstable anyway, they get it into their head to hunt you down and attack you (has happened before). Maybe they just want to harass you, who knows...

Also, the fact that you carry Identity protection does not negate the points I make.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrine View Post
Look, Facebook wants as much info about you so they can advertise to you. That's it. That's as nefarious as it gets. I don't really care if Facebook wants to sell me a coke.
I am not worried about their nefarious motives, though I don't appreciate having my information treated as a target for a telemarketer either. Past that, my only concern with them is due to their past "mistakes" in their updates to which caused some security problems. I would rather not place the security of ANY of my personal information with a site as such, especially when I can achieve the same benefits as their site without the security risk. /shrug


Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrine View Post
The pros far outwiegh the cons.

Follow these general rules and Facebook will be enjoyable.
  • Don't post anything you wouldn't say loudly enough to be overheard in public saying
  • Keep your personal drama off of Facebook
  • Don't post pictures you wouldn't post in a public place
I help run a website for car enthusiasts. You can find out A LOT more about me on that site then you can on Facebook.
Not to even mention my LinkedIn profile which is much less private then Facebook is.
It is your job to protect your privacy. I don't dispute that. But NOT using FB over "privacy paranoia" means you are missing out on a fun and valuable internet service. Period.
None of your "pros" are a "pro" for me. I already have a private server to which I setup for family and friend postings, instant chat, voice and video conference, fun games, picture uploads, file sharing, etc... and it is all protected by me under my control and accessible only by accounts to which I give out. I have no direct presence advertising this on the web as a Facebook page does and provides. I just don't need a random public profile on the net to achieve such. So in my case, it is all cons and no pros.

I am missing out on nothing and likely have more functionality and capability on my private server than you do with Facebook as anything I desire, I can simply create myself.


I don't see why this had to turn into a contest, I made a legitimate point concerning security and the risks. You made a legitimate point that one can limit such by being careful. Past that, it is a choice people make.

As I said, I never understood why people did those things when one could accomplish it on their own without any of the draw backs. If it is simply for social discussion, a board such as this is plenty for myself and I have no desire to relinquish my identity to a bunch of people I do not know on the internet. /shrug

Last edited by Nomander; 06-21-2011 at 12:05 PM..
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Old 06-21-2011, 12:02 PM
 
13,072 posts, read 11,574,423 times
Reputation: 2608
Quote:
Originally Posted by kazyn View Post
All that information is public already. First and last names are everywhere, they're not a secret. That's how you identify yourself, that's why they exist. There used to be these things that we used called phone books, that had thousands and thousands of names in it. I don't see them around much anymore though.

Of course it's possible, but if it were really that easy to recreate an identity, there would be havoc, everyone would do it.

This conversation has strayed from Facebook security and floated on down Paranoia River.
First, phone book listings are limited to what the person wants to put in them. The very minimal public requirement can obscure such. Sure, the information is public for name and other stuff, but it contained no personal attachment to it. It was just some random name and information.

Facebook gives character to the target which is very important when you are setting up a victim. It allows you to assess personality and habits to see if they would be an easy target. Combine that with gaining the free public information and you have everything you need to setup a crime. (there was a recent burglary to which the FB victim had been posting about this vacation they were saving up to go on, talked about when, had pictures of their home to which showed a vehicle license plate, and through their random discussions, they mentioned locations to which the burglar could find their exact address and then went in and took everything while they were gone). Not going to get that level of information from a phone book.

That did not exist before and FB makes you a target for it while a phone never really did in the way you suggest.
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Old 06-21-2011, 01:26 PM
 
16,308 posts, read 25,260,164 times
Reputation: 8302
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianH View Post
Its far from paranoia, its extremely easy to harvest information from Facebook and other places. Far too many people put so much information out there and cry becasue it gets misued somehow. If more people were 'paranoid' about their information we would have a lot less problems.
The problem with FB is that no matter how careful the user is at keeping information private to all but select family or friends, they may just decide to change everyone setting all at once, making it visible to anyone, and of course not notifying anyone of the change, even after the fact.
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Old 06-21-2011, 04:50 PM
 
2,182 posts, read 4,705,982 times
Reputation: 1206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomander View Post
First, phone book listings are limited to what the person wants to put in them. The very minimal public requirement can obscure such. Sure, the information is public for name and other stuff, but it contained no personal attachment to it. It was just some random name and information.

Facebook gives character to the target which is very important when you are setting up a victim. It allows you to assess personality and habits to see if they would be an easy target. Combine that with gaining the free public information and you have everything you need to setup a crime. (there was a recent burglary to which the FB victim had been posting about this vacation they were saving up to go on, talked about when, had pictures of their home to which showed a vehicle license plate, and through their random discussions, they mentioned locations to which the burglar could find their exact address and then went in and took everything while they were gone). Not going to get that level of information from a phone book.

That did not exist before and FB makes you a target for it while a phone never really did in the way you suggest.
Every bit of this post is unsubstantiated, and completely circumstantial. It all goes back to making your account viewable by friends only, and trusting those who you accept as friends. If someone you don't know can't see the information, they can't assess it or harvest it or use it.

It is clear that you have your opinion, and I have mine. I don't believe there will be a compromise.

The way I see it, is that if you put information about yourself online, only you can prevent that forest fire. It is irrational to blame facebook for this. This thread is blaming facebook for not being secure. I stand to say that I believe this statement to be false. It is quite secure. If I decide to post things about myself to random people I don't know, there is obviously a mistrust issue there with MYSELF, no one else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asheville Native View Post
The problem with FB is that no matter how careful the user is at keeping information private to all but select family or friends, they may just decide to change everyone setting all at once, making it visible to anyone, and of course not notifying anyone of the change, even after the fact.
While that could happen, I don't believe it will. Lawsuit city, baby

Now of course facebook could be hacked (Hi, Playstation Network), sure, I would never say it couldn't, because it has and it will again and again. What man creates, man can reverse engineer. However, I will not live my life fearing such miniscule chances. I'll take those chances and I'll have my facebook It is a tool I use daily to connect with those I cherish in an efficient and delightful way.
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