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Old 11-09-2012, 06:22 AM
 
Location: Chicago
5,559 posts, read 4,628,733 times
Reputation: 2202

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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
Three reasons:

1) The fiscal cliff. Even as we speak, people are dumping out their commercial real estate holdings before the end of the year. The activity out there is unreal.

2) The anticipation of the bottom line hit that Obamacare is going to inflict. The corporate budgeting that I know of has CFOs DOUBLING their anticipated employee health insurance expenses, chiefly because of this godawful regulation. Nobody knows what's going to happen, not even the authors of this abomination.

All of this is known and has been long factored in.

Everyone who watches the market knows that that the only reason the market has been going up is that the Federal Reserve has been printing money. This is the fuel. If you look at the charts, who can readily identify the exact point that the Federal Reserve announced QE1, QE2, and QE3, by the spikes.

So, if the market has only gone up because the Feds keep printing trillions of dollars of money (which hurt the overall economy as I explained above), then one can guess that the market is going down because it fears that the government may be actually forced to begin cutting debt and thus slowing down the Federal Reserve printing press.

What is good for the economy is bad for the stock market. The stock market has been on debt life support and it was bound to end.
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Old 11-09-2012, 07:24 AM
 
41,110 posts, read 25,730,963 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaker281 View Post
Or you could say that the people who used tax payer funded loans to achieve success and profit off people's misfortune (illness) will be forced to pay their fair share, thus giving something back. Depends on what kind on emotional BS you might be trying to peddle!
Many people who start small businesses do not use tax payer funded loans and in fact they may barrow against their own homes putting everything at risk. They may have borrowed money from family and paid it back with "interest, hopefully everyone wins. But lets go with your narrow (Liz Warrens) view. Lets say that people used tax payer funded loans, which most don't, as long as it is paid back with "interest" then I don't see the problem. As long as the money is paid back everyone wins.

Your answer reaks of someone who has never had a business and most likely someone who has never tried. Your answer reaks of someone who was told something by democrats and now thinks they know "everyone's" situation in how they got started and someone who thinks they know it all when in actuality you are talking out you ass.

Last edited by petch751; 11-09-2012 at 07:49 AM..
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Old 11-09-2012, 07:27 AM
 
41,110 posts, read 25,730,963 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaker281 View Post
Or it could refer to the Tea Party holding everyone hostage in the face of mounting deficits by refusing tax reforms or spending cuts. Their way or the highway!
Obama has been in office the last 4 years and instead of spending money to increase the tax base (i.e. jobs) he opted to spend on green energy which produced how many jobs? Would anyone here hand over their life savings to Obama so he could invest your money for you? I sure as hell wouldn't.

What about all those people on welfare, you know, the able bodied people who are perfectly healthy but have never worked and never intend to work. It's time they start paying their fair share... or at least go to work so they can contribute.
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Old 11-09-2012, 07:32 AM
 
41,110 posts, read 25,730,963 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richrf View Post
All of this is known and has been long factored in.

Everyone who watches the market knows that that the only reason the market has been going up is that the Federal Reserve has been printing money. This is the fuel. If you look at the charts, who can readily identify the exact point that the Federal Reserve announced QE1, QE2, and QE3, by the spikes.

So, if the market has only gone up because the Feds keep printing trillions of dollars of money (which hurt the overall economy as I explained above), then one can guess that the market is going down because it fears that the government may be actually forced to begin cutting debt and thus slowing down the Federal Reserve printing press.

What is good for the economy is bad for the stock market. The stock market has been on debt life support and it was bound to end.
true. The stock market went up because of massive printing instead of going up because of fundamentals (true economic growth). Before the election democrats kept pointing to the stock market trying to say it was proof that things were getting better and but they didn't understand it was propped up.

When you are borrow money to support the good life the devil (debt) will get its due and it's due will be hell.

Last edited by petch751; 11-09-2012 at 08:10 AM..
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Old 11-09-2012, 07:34 AM
 
Location: Chicago
5,559 posts, read 4,628,733 times
Reputation: 2202
Quote:
Originally Posted by petch751 View Post
Many people who start small businesses do not use tax payer funded loans and in fact they may barrow against their own homes putting everything at risk. They may have borrowed money from family and paid it back with "interest. But lets go with your narrow view. Lets say that people used tax payer funded loans, which most don't, as long as it is paid back with "interest" then I don't see the problem.

Your answer reaks of someone who has never had a business and most likely someone who has never tried. Your answer reaks of someone who was told something by democrats and now thinks they know "everyone's" situation in how they got started and someone who thinks they know it all when in actuality you are talking out you ass.
With this type of intransigence, the debt problem will never be solved.

I would love to see Government debt slashed by cutting waste and the time to begin is now. However, if government debt went down to zero immediately, the economy will tank. Government debt is now 6% of GNP.

So, what would be a reasonable course? Increase revenue by putting a cap on deductions and/or allow interest rates to rise a small increment. Also, stop the silly subsidies of ethanol, oil companies, etc. At the same time, begin cutting the ludicrous and wasteful spending on healthcare (we spend way more than any other Western country as a percent of GDP with no benefits), defense (we spend more than the next six largest countries), and other pork barrel projects. Simpson/Boles had it right.

This would be a reasonable approach. Suggesting that the top 1 or 2% of the wealthiest people in this country could not afford to pay additional taxes (they have been gaming the tax code for their benefit for the last 20 years), is not reasonable and will not get us anywhere. I think most Americans are beyond this line of thinking, because it makes no sense if we want to solve our economic problems.
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Old 11-09-2012, 07:44 AM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
27,564 posts, read 28,659,961 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse69 View Post
After Obama got re-elected the stock market crashed... Anyone know why?
The stock market has been in a correction since September. The S&P 500 is down 6% from its peak, Nasdaq is down 9%. The stock market is a leading economic indicator and "knows" what perils lie ahead.

I suggest that people should not be in stocks right now (unless you daytrade and know what you're doing with that). All of my money is in cash.
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Old 11-09-2012, 07:44 AM
 
41,110 posts, read 25,730,963 times
Reputation: 13868
And with people who are too lazy taking out of the system instead of putting into the system even if it's a small. They are capable but think they deserve it for some reason, always an excuse. They contribute nothing but they sure take. Now for the "big business" they could yes but Obama reached down too low. People at the $200 level, yes they make good money but they unlike the lazy people they also pay a lot of taxes too so they contribute to society and to the government coffers too. They are expected to pay more. I think we should go to the extremes, the people or companies, the people who are too lazy should have to work and the companies, take away some deductions.
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Old 11-09-2012, 07:45 AM
 
41,110 posts, read 25,730,963 times
Reputation: 13868
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
The stock market has been in a correction since September. The S&P 500 is down 6% from its peak, Nasdaq is down 9%. The stock market is a leading economic indicator and "knows" what perils like ahead.

I suggest that people should not be in stocks right now (unless you daytrade and know what you're doing with that). All of my money is in cash.
I agree, all money in cash. Not sure about gold though.
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Old 11-09-2012, 07:55 AM
 
Location: Chicago
5,559 posts, read 4,628,733 times
Reputation: 2202
Quote:
Originally Posted by petch751 View Post
And with people who are too lazy taking out of the system instead of putting into the system even if it's a small. They are capable but think they deserve it for some reason, always an excuse. They contribute nothing but they sure take. Now for the "big business" they could yes but Obama reached down too low. People at the $200 level, yes they make good money but they unlike the lazy people they also pay a lot of taxes too so they contribute to society and to the government coffers too. They are expected to pay more. I think we should go to the extremes, the people or companies, the people who are too lazy should have to work and the companies, take away some deductions.
Your heros are no angels. They took trillions of dollars of Federally Insured deposits (yes even small business who set up the mortgage lending shells) and made loans to every deadbeat that came along. Then they sold off these trillions in bad loans to the government and got paid back in full. As a result, everyone else has to pay for these bad loans while the wealthiest got paid back in full. The 99% is paying for those bad loans while the top 1% is buying islands.

Wall Street is still paying themselves billions upon billions of dollars in bonuses which are the result of the free money that they get from the Federal Reserve. And you are crying for them? Can you borrow money at .75%. I can't. If I could, I could make billions of dollars easily, just on a carry trade (buying Treasuries yielding 2). Let's make .75% loans available to everyone, workers, small business owners, retirees, etc. Not just to the big banks on Wall Street and let's see what happens. Of course, that is not possible. As a result we have less jobs and poorly paying jobs while the bankers grow their wealth exponentially. It's easy if the game is rigged in your favor. And then the crocodile tears.
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Old 11-09-2012, 08:01 AM
 
28,895 posts, read 54,153,037 times
Reputation: 46680
Quote:
Originally Posted by richrf View Post
All of this is known and has been long factored in.
Like hell it has. The companies I have been dealing with have had two different sets of plans, each one depending on who won the election. But despite seminars, consultants, and all kinds of articles, no one has a clear picture of what Obamacare is really going to do once it is implemented. It is a mess of a law, ill-considered, extraordinarily complex, and wholly unrealistic when taking into account how most companies operate.
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