Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Very true. The Vanguard S&P 500 Index fund Investor share class (the most expensive shares) returned 9.1% over the last 20 years, which is actually a bit below the historical average. If it gets 9.1% over the next 25 years, $100 per month invested in the fund will be $114,861.64 in 25 years. Not bad for a lousy $100 a month that most people don't even remember spending.
Joe Schmo making $50k a year won't find that to be a small sum either. That alone would be enough to upgrade the house or make some cosmetic repairs and then sell it when he retires.
Most people on this board I think make more than that (though I'm making an assumption there). The burden we have is that we spend more too so there's a flip side of the coin. I know someone who makes $350,000 a year. He's constantly maxing out his cards and proclaims to me that he doesn't know how "I do it." Easy! I don't eat out all the time, I don't drive a Mercedes, I don't live in a $1 million home, I don't have impulse buying habits like his (at least not on the same scale, he once dropped $20k on a home entertainment system because his old one was "old" at 5 years old). I also don't throw expensive parties at my place, and I don't have "female acquaintances" over every weekend. If he cut out all that unnecessary garbage out of his life he would be set. But mommy and daddy who established the family business spoiled him and made him used to that lifestyle. Now he's a middle aged spoiled man-child. At times I feel like smacking him and telling him that I will control his finances but I can't bring myself to do it/don't have time/patience.
I am impressed with so many here in the City Data world. Just wondering about one thing though. For those that are against the 401K what have you done personally to save and invest for your retirement? What are you doing that is so much better than what is offered? Maybe you are more astute at this investing thing than I am. Possibly you are more sophisticated in your investments and how you work toward the end game. I would like to know how much of your income is going toward investing in your future and what you are doing other than the standard 401K or 403B arena.
Here is the anti-401k crowd response to your queries:
DEBT—fueled by digital welfare—is not enough going forward
Quote:
Originally Posted by eskercurve
But mommy and daddy (FED/USGovt/Taxpayer) who established the family business (Economy) spoiled him and made him used to that lifestyle. Now he's a middle aged spoiled man-child (afflicted 401k/retirement members').
Your intentional mendacity/passive aggressive assumptions are totally wrong. I 'corrected' your quote in hopes of describing the digital welfare economy that has emerged via the reckless participation in 401k/retirement plans.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eskercurve
...At times I feel like smacking him and telling him that I will control his finances but I can't bring myself to do it/don't have time/patience.
Why would you want to control his finances? Why do you hang out with this $350k/year loser? Anyway, you need to hold off on controlling this guy's money until you seek financial guidance—his spendthrift ways is what keeps your portfolio alive. You see, this is the 401k/retirement plan conundrum: it's dependent on idle/locked up money, but it's also dependent on loser/spendthrift behavior.
I am impressed with so many here in the City Data world. Just wondering about one thing though. For those that are against the 401K what have you done personally to save and invest for your retirement? What are you doing that is so much better than what is offered? Maybe you are more astute at this investing thing than I am. Possibly you are more sophisticated in your investments and how you work toward the end game. I would like to know how much of your income is going toward investing in your future and what you are doing other than the standard 401K or 403B arena.
Can the naysayers please answer this question? I too am highly intrigued as to what these golden alternatives are. Not a single piece of advice from these folks, only criticism with no resolve.
Joe Schmo making $50k a year won't find that to be a small sum either. That alone would be enough to upgrade the house or make some cosmetic repairs and then sell it when he retires.
Yep. 114K is not a lot of money for retirement, but it's a heck of a lot better than nothing. Combine it with part time work and a SS check, and you're living ok, especially if you manage to have your house paid off by retirement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eskercurve
Most people on this board I think make more than that (though I'm making an assumption there).
Heh, yeah, that's probably true, but I'm not one of them. I'm one of moderate income, high savings type of people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eskercurve
Now he's a middle aged spoiled man-child. At times I feel like smacking him and telling him that I will control his finances but I can't bring myself to do it/don't have time/patience.
I would like to smack most of my friends and relatives regarding their finances. Of course, you can't do it for them because they will scream bloody murder when you tell them of all the "necessities" they must do without.
There's plenty of citizens' out there that use/rely on cash for retirement funds. Pre-2010, the DSOs cache was doing okay—even after paying thousands of $ in state/federal interest-income taxes/year. I did feel duped with the relatively low interest rates from 2000-2008, but was making out okay & understood that my frugal lifestyle has its unintended consequences.
However, look what's happening: fervent ostracizing/punishment of the citizenry' because they crawl along & build wealth incrementally; what mathjak107 often refers to as people who "live under a rock". These citizens serve a purpose in the economy; these citizens are not hurting anybody & do not want to participate in this potentially hazardous way of building wealth—not to mention relying on FED/USGovt/virtual taxpayer bailouts every ~10 years!
You guys' are in denial & have to stop RELYING on manufactured inflation. This frantic obsession to mop-up ALL sources of wealth so you can funnel it into the 401k/stockmarket apparatus is economically barbaric/shameful. The 401k plan was designed/adapted to deal with the natural emergence of deflation; you guys' want to toggle deflation & inflation to suit your personal portfolio's needs.
Last edited by DSOs; 12-26-2013 at 09:31 PM..
Reason: spelling, deleted comma
There's plenty of citizens' out there that use/rely on cash for retirement funds. Pre-2010, the DSOs cache was doing okay—even after paying thousands of $ in state/federal interest-income taxes/year. I did feel duped with the relatively low interest rates from 2000-2008, but was making out okay & understood that my frugal lifestyle has its unintended consequences.
However, look what's happening: fervent ostracizing/punishment of the citizenry' because they crawl along & build wealth incrementally; what mathjak107 often refers to as people who "live under a rock". These citizens serve a purpose in the economy; these citizens are not hurting anybody & do not want to participate in this potentially hazardous way of building wealth—not to mention relying on FED/USGovt/virtual taxpayer bailouts every ~10 years!
You guys' are in denial & have to stop RELYING on manufactured inflation. This frantic obsession to mop-up ALL sources of wealth so you can funnel it into the 401k/stockmarket apparatus is economically barbaric/shameful. The 401k plan was designed/adapted to deal with the natural emergence of deflation; you guys' want to toggle deflation & inflation to suit your personal portfolio's needs.
Having everything in cash is ridiculous, especially if you are concerned about inflation. You're lucky to get 1% in cash and the inflation rate is 2% (or so they tell us...I think the real rate is higher).
You know DSOs, I just have to wonder what alternate reality you live in. I can't make sense of what you're saying so I won't attempt to. You obviously have a consistent theory on how economics work in your world, and I'll just leave it at that. Good luck in the real world with your theories though, I never wish anyone ill will, especially if only over the intertubes.
i have to agree, he makes little sense with reality . the only thing missing from most of his posts here is they didn't start with once upon a time.
Wouldn't be surprised if he's a Marxist or a neo-Luddite. Would be nice if everyone would become a communist and could live in brotherly love and not worry about money. I agree that Jesus would likely have loved some of the tenets of Communism.
Too bad people need motivation in the real world to do things with their lives. And money is good motivation. And it is funny how even in the old USSR, you STILL had a pyramid of some folks at the top with all the power and the rest were just slogging along. Even China is going more towards market based economies. Deng Xiaoping was smart to initiate opening up the economy so it can move forward. He knew that Marxism/Leninism/Maoism/Communism was a failed experiment that resulted in the same class struggles that their philosophy tried to banish.
And would be nice if everyone would live off the land ... oh wait no, it wouldn't. Not with 7 BILLION people in the world. Not gonna happen. Maybe with 300 million.
"Become the change you desire" is a good motto. But it's hard to fill bellies and stay warm with it.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
DEBT—fueled by digital welfare—is not enough going forward
Anyway, you need to hold off on controlling this guy's money until you seek financial guidance—his spendthrift ways is what keeps your portfolio alive. You see, this is the 401k/retirement plan conundrum: it's dependent on idle/locked up money, but it's also dependent on loser/spendthrift behavior.
