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Ok, I see your point on this one. Of course, people don't have to listen to their advisers, either...but I guess there's a greater chance they will.
i am a prime example of someone who would never stop fiddling , guessing or planning my next move second guessing what is already in place.
i owe a lot of the 1400% gains i have seen since i started fund investing in the 1980's with the fact i follow a newsletter.
it is them that keep me from myself . no matter how much you know about investing you still may benefit from allowing someone else with no emotional ties to call the shots.
i use a newsletter for my investing. we recently saw an estate attorney to put lots of things in place for our older years.
in two weeks we are seeing a financial planner to put the finishing touches on our tax planning and co-ordinating future rmds and a huge social security payment if i delay to 70. we are looking into long term care policies at that time as well.
i know what i know but i am also smart enough to know what i don't know. even taking social security at a wrong age or not utilizing file and suspend or restrictive application can cost you over 100k in benefits you could have had.
in no other aspect of life do folks refuse to part with a small fee to possibly save hundreds of thousands down the road as they do when they think they know enough to plot a lifetime of financial planning out.
the less you have the more important it becomes to get it right.
you see all the time right in these forums how people run on believing their own bull-sh@t to be true and are so wrong about what thy believe.
i don't know if you followed the thread we had here on what the 4% safe withdrawal rate represented. the wrong answers were mind blowing as even those with a fairly good financial understanding of things had what they thought it was totally wrong.
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Last edited by mathjak107; 05-12-2014 at 02:23 AM..
Yes, I hear you on the newsletter. That newsletter is pretty cheap, though, compared to an adviser. Personally, I think you could have done almost as well or maybe even better with a fund like Doge & Cox Balanced or T. Rowe Price Capital Appreciation...but there's more than one way to get good results.
Yes, I hear you on the newsletter. That newsletter is pretty cheap, though, compared to an adviser. Personally, I think you could have done almost as well or maybe even better with a fund like Doge & Cox Balanced or T. Rowe Price Capital Appreciation...but there's more than one way to get good results.
You love those and a couple of other funds and I fully understand why. We are still contributing in retirement and in markets like this it can be easier to put money in solid funds and use them to stay within your AA over your index funds. I personally am more focused on Wellington and Cap Appreciation over my index funds.
You love those and a couple of other funds and I fully understand why.
Yeah, wish I'd known about them when I first started investing in my mid 20s. I'd be a lot better off if I had picked one of those funds I'm always recommending and just stayed the course.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP
We are still contributing in retirement and in markets like this it can be easier to put money in solid funds and use them to stay within your AA over your index funds. I personally am more focused on Wellington and Cap Appreciation over my index funds.
Yes, I completely agree. The expenses for Wellington are so low, they are competitive with index funds. I think active management is worth it if the premium you pay for it is small (as is the case with Wellington).
I am not knocking index funds but I think some are a bit too obsessed with them. And a lot of people talk about them as if they're all the same. I see a lot of people say "I invest in index funds" as if they are all the same. I'm thinking "Well, um., ok, but which indices are you actually investing in?" Small cap stock index? Bond index? Total stock market index? Foreign stock index? etc.
Yeah, wish I'd known about them when I first started investing in my mid 20s. I'd be a lot better off if I had picked one of those funds I'm always recommending and just stayed the course.
Yes, I completely agree. The expenses for Wellington are so low, they are competitive with index funds. I think active management is worth it if the premium you pay for it is small (as is the case with Wellington).
I am not knocking index funds but I think some are a bit too obsessed with them. And a lot of people talk about them as if they're all the same. I see a lot of people say "I invest in index funds" as if they are all the same. I'm thinking "Well, um., ok, but which indices are you actually investing in?" Small cap stock index? Bond index? Total stock market index? Foreign stock index? etc.
Cap Appreciation was up about 4.5% as of yesterday for the year. Not bad for conservative fund. My New Horizons which I love is down over 6%. Had a great role and does to some big swings. Wellington is about 60/40 fairly conservative and well managed. With their being so much uncertainty in which way to go fixed income and equities right it is comforting to put new money to work and let their team handle the decision making. Really wish their was a dedicated thread or forum on retiring with a pension and investments and especially life after retirement with them. Oh yeah and still investing. I suspect you will be there soon and I can pick your brain. Along with MathJak and a few others we can make some interesting contrasts in the various ways to Rome but once there Bada Bing! Even ER has limited after retirement discussion and the usual response of anyone you talk to is what are you even worrying or thinking about it for. I've had professionals say the same thing. What indexes am I investing in? Sorta funny. I have multiple portfolios plus at three places. Total Market, Extended, Small Cap, multiple bond and international. They are suppose to serve different functions in retirement but right now in a good way they are turning out to all be the same. Next stage is in four years when we hit 70 and I go off spousal and start collecting my own etc etc etc.
Cap Appreciation was up about 4.5% as of yesterday for the year. Not bad for conservative fund. My New Horizons which I love is down over 6%. Had a great role and does to some big swings. Wellington is about 60/40 fairly conservative and well managed. With there being so much uncertainty in which way to go fixed income and equities right it is comforting to put new money to work and let their team handle the decision making.
Yes, Cap. Apprec. is a great fund. I feel like a hypocrite for putting several friends in it and recommending it on CD, but not owning it myself, although that's partly because I don't have it in my 457 plan at work. But I consider moving my IRA money into the fund, but the fund in my IRA, PRBLX, actually held up better in 2008 even though it's all stocks. PRBLX has beat PRWCX over the last 5 and 10 year periods, so I'm still holding on, despite the higher expenses.
I recommended Wellington to a friend of mine who is obsessed with low expense ratios. He thought the expenses for PRWCX were too high, but thought the small premium of VWELX over an index fund was small enough to be justifiable, so he bought VWELX and is contributing to it monthly. I agree with you that VWELX is a good choice for right now, as stock valuations are full, but not necessarily crazy. But I do think the bond portion of balanced funds is going to be a drag over the next 10 years...interest rates are just too low to generate good returns...but bonds/cash still act as shock absorbers in bear markets.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP
Really wish their was a dedicated thread or forum on retiring with a pension and investments and especially life after retirement with them. Oh yeah and still investing. I suspect you will be there soon and I can pick your brain
.
Why a dedicated thread? Having a nice pension + a solid 403b/457/401k balance is a solid building block to a great retirement. Of course, money isn't everything. I have a friend who retired at 58, low 7 digit 401k, plus pension. Started collecting SS at 66. Has never touched the 401K in the 10 years since he retired because he really didn't need it (house paid off, etc). But he's not a terribly happy person. He didn't get the relationship / meaningful use of his time parts of the equation right. I want to make sure I get all pieces of the puzzle right (or at least in the right ballpark). Heh, but I'm not going to get there soon. I'm turning 44 this week, so I have a decade to go, at a minimum. A lot can happen in 11 years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP
Along with MathJak and a few others we can make some interesting contrasts in the various ways to Rome but once there Bada Bing!
Yep. But the big picture is pretty much the same for any financially successful person who hasn't inherited any significant money.....You have to earn at least an ok income, and you must sock away a solid percentage of that income (15%+) and keep it up paycheck after paycheck, year after year. And you really need to save more than 15%. The 15% is your retirement money and you need to put away an additional 10% (at least) for emergency savings and other short/medium term goals (your next car, home repairs, college if you have kids, etc.).
Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP
Even ER has limited after retirement discussion and the usual response of anyone you talk to is what are you even worrying or thinking about it for. I've had professionals say the same thing.
Like I said, getting the money part right is only about 1/3 of the equation. If you don't get the meaningful relationships/meaningful life parts right, you're not going to be very happy until you do. I have seen this with my above mentioned friend and I have also read the same thing on early retirement blogs. The money is definitely important, but it's also definitely not enough, all by itself.
What indexes am I investing in? Sorta funny. I have multiple portfolios plus at three places. Total Market, Extended, Small Cap, multiple bond and international. They are supposed to serve different functions in retirement but right now in a good way they are turning out to all be the same. Next stage is in four years when we hit 70 and I go off spousal and start collecting my own etc etc etc.
At your age, I guess the main thing is you don't want to lose too much in a market downturn. That probably means at least 25% in bonds (and maybe more) unless your withdrawal rate is sub 3%.
Let me say this about fixed income choices. For us and others our primary fixed income sources of pensions and SS exceed our retirement spending and leave room for continued savings. Drawdown other than RMD's become nebulous and food for thought about continuing investment decicision.
Finances can play a major role in enhancing your meaningful retirement relationships. It can enhance the opportunities to do things together and to not have to make challenging financial decisions. It can help with being able to support siblings if needed, children if needed and perhaps most importantly giving to charity together helps the ties that bond. If given the opportunity to have pensions and if also investing it becomes a Money Magazine possibility. I learned from that publication and others with case studies over the years.
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