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I didn't say all and as I noted the devil is in the detail of the specific plan etc etc. Mine doesn't pay out if you haven't retired so getting there is especially important. Again my point is there is no such thing as a blanket this is better or the other is better. It depends on the situation and details of the specific plans. If you have a pension you know that and are working within the context of your specific plan and not all or others. As far as vesting time that varies from plan to plan and even within plans there are differences based on when enrolled as pension reform has changed the rules over the years. Hey as is often discussed not all 401/403 plans are equal.
pensions die when you do if you do not have the required years in yet to be vested. . the article refers to after you made the number of years.
seperate issue , my wifes pension is non transferable under any circumstances even though she is collecting. there are no spousal options for me even at a reduction.
if i really needed the money i would have to get life insurance on her to cover the amount.
For our plan vesting means eligible to retire but you still need to have in order tocollect. It all balances out in the actuarial tables for the specific plan and what one state doesn't give in one area it may in another area. For instance at our age point our reduction for spousal benefits was only 17 percent far superior to other states where it is 50%. Just know your target and the rules of your game and not what others elsewhere might have.
The majority of people covered under pension plans are vested and in that case if you die before retiring your benes do usually collect a lump sum which would include interest credit to your pension account.
Usually is not what folks who have pensions need to use for planning purposes what they need to use is the guidelines of their plan. As I noted previously the original question is nebulous as you either have a pension or you don't and your retirement plans are guided by your plan and not the norm. In our case knowing we would have had to retire we new to put emphasis on investing for that and other reasons. What are the rules guiding your plan on vesting and survivor benefits.
The impact of pension reform in some cases will make pensions less attractive especially for higher income employees pension-reform
There is a lot to chew on in reforms in Rhode Island, Illinois and elsewhere. What I find interesting in the Illinois reform is the cap on income for contributions at 109,971. Is this saying that the maximum highest years for pension benefits computation is that cap? So the higher earning employees in high COLA regions of Illinois will find there eventual pension in relation to working income wanting. Thus the greater need for a 403B to help supplement.
401K's are dangerous if they are underfunded and poorly invested.......
Pensions are dangerous for the entity that funds/guarantees them.....many municipalities are choking with spiraling costs and less revenue to cover them! You can't pay a guy to work 20 years and increase the wage on a rising scale and collect for 30+ based on the retirement wage (a much higher amount than what they averaged throughout their career).
Do public school teachers get paid less than private school teachers? Some specialized positions are more highly paid in the private sector but not many and certainly not most.
usually no, public schools pay better and have better benefits. Just like a cop vs. a security officer at a private company, public job pays better and has better benefits.
I really consider this a nebulous question because the answer is both if you have a choice and if you don't you don't. I would hate anyone reading this to think it is either or and be choosing between if they can do both. When you hit the game over stage it is sweet to be able to leave your employer plan alone while not being able to add to you can leave it to grow other than Roth Conversions and eventual RMD's etc. Our plan is so good that we are leaving it in the employer account because of fees and usable choices.
This is kind of how I feel about it. I have a pension and a 457 (similar to 403b) plan. The 457 has good to excellent choices with moderate to low expenses. The pension is great, but it has also gone up dramatically in cost, which resulted in our taking both a pay cut and putting a larger and larger share of our salaries into it, now up to 14.4%. That high pension cost prevents me from saving more in my 457 as well.
This is kind of how I feel about it. I have a pension and a 457 (similar to 403b) plan. The 457 has good to excellent choices with moderate to low expenses. The pension is great, but it has also gone up dramatically in cost, which resulted in our taking both a pay cut and putting a larger and larger share of our salaries into it, now up to 14.4%. That high pension cost prevents me from saving more in my 457 as well.
A lot of folks feel like us. There is a movement a foot to use public pension funds to fund parts of government operation. Those funds are one of the few remaining chunks of money government thinks it can grab ahold of. I know you from other forums and you are a savvy investor and might do better on your own. For me at this stage of the game it has worked out well, if younger not so sure.
watch your wording. the majority of people who work for firms with pensions or gov't are not there long enough to have any pension benefits. most require at least 20 years to get a thing. thats tuborgs point. leave or get terminated before that and you walk away witrh zip.
Are you sure about that 20 year vesting period? I don't think that's the case any more. Here in California, it's normally 5 years before you're fully vested.
A lot of folks feel like us. There is a movement a foot to use public pension funds to fund parts of government operation.
OMG! I have not heard that, at least in my neck of the woods. I can't imagine them doing that (oh, but I can, unfortunately!) when many of these pensions aren't properly funded in the first place (my own plan included). At least where I work, they are certainly not talking about using the pension to fund operations. I really don't think the union would allow it (and I don't exactly love the union, but they would rightly fight this tooth and nail).
Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP
Those funds are one of the few remaining chunks of money government thinks it can grab ahold of
It doesn't surprise me, but I like I said, I can't believe the unions would allow it. But some are so corrupt, anything is possible. And most people are clueless and apathetic about this stuff until the pension goes bust (which I find extremely frustrating!).
Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP
I know you from other forums and you are a savvy investor and might do better on your own. For me at this stage of the game it has worked out well, if younger not so sure.
Heh, thanks for the compliment . I wish I could say I was a savvy investor from day one. I wasn't. It took me quite a few years and I learned a lot of things the hard way, especially in 2008. Now I think I've finally got a consistent and reasonably balanced system that works for me. I learned the had way that a moderately boring investing plan often beats a complex and risky one.
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Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
. I wish I could say I was a savvy investor from day one. I wasn't. It took me quite a few years and I learned a lot of things the hard way, especially in 2008. Now I think I've finally got a consistent and reasonably balanced system that works for me. I learned the had way that a moderately boring investing plan often beats a complex and risky one.
