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without capital gains your dividends are a wash . they go hand in hand . you get the dividend and have a stock worth that much less . it is only about total return in either case .
either you sell a piece off of your non dividend payer or they sell a piece of your share price off for you . you are incorrect if you think there is a difference .
If the stock market is in bubble mode then it takes new investors to make fake returns. If you are buying stock for dividends then It is not Ponzi like. If you are buying stocks for capital gains then it is Ponzi like as not everyone can see what is driving the market higher. (Zero prime forcing people into stocks to get returns when their CDs mature.) The resulting capital appreciation is turning into retirement income for a lot of people. Ponzi like, not a Ponzi scheme.
You can't label things a Ponzi and make it true. You aren't describing a Ponzi scheme at all and it's not even Ponzi like. It's almost as if you are having a hard time understanding or explaining what the market is therefore it must be a ponzi
If the stock market is in bubble mode then it takes new investors to make fake returns.
Absolutely false. Whether it is in bubble mode is pure speculation, people trade stocks and valuations can rise regardless of what your opinion on the stock market is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ContrarianEcon
If you are buying stock for dividends then It is not Ponzi like. If you are buying stocks for capital gains then it is Ponzi like as not everyone can see what is driving the market higher. (Zero prime forcing people into stocks to get returns when their CDs mature.) The resulting capital appreciation is turning into retirement income for a lot of people. Ponzi like, not a Ponzi scheme.
The characteristics of a ponzi scheme have already been explained to you. You might as well be in here saying soup is made from stock therefore the stock market is soup like.
Absolutely false. Whether it is in bubble mode is pure speculation, people trade stocks and valuations can rise regardless of what your opinion on the stock market is.
The characteristics of a ponzi scheme have already been explained to you. You might as well be in here saying soup is made from stock therefore the stock market is soup like.
i thought when the markets went from 1700 or so after the stock market crash in 1987 to 3000 we were in the biggest bubble ever . well experience taught me to lose the word bubble . it is a meaningless word thrown out there most of the time by not investors but those that were to gun shy to invest or those who missed a big run up because they thought the sky was falling .
A "bubble" is only a bubble if its dynamics are unsustainable. The proliferation of web-sites in the late 1990s felt like a bubble. So many new ones were popping up, that dispassionate judgment would have pointed to an unsustainable event. At that rate, in some number of years, every man, woman and child on earth would have become a web-developer. I don't know if peasants in Kenya or Cameroon are all HTML programmers now, but most assuredly, the proliferation of web sites never did abate, even if the pace of their creation slackened. There was no bubble.
I'd submit that the very nature of a true bubble is its inscrutability. If a substantial portion of people regard something as being a bubble, then necessarily it isn't one. This doesn't mean that stocks or real-estate or whatever can't decline. Assuredly they can. It's this fanatical "bubble, bubble, toil and trouble" shrillness that I find to be so vapid.
Does anybody here remember 1982? I was in elementary school back then, but I do remember watching "Wall Street Week, with Louis Rukeyser". It was the beginning of what became the greatest bull market in history, but at the time, didn't it feel like a bubble?
Ponzi schemes use new investor money to pay off older investor returns, so I'd assume the market's performance isn't really relevant other than scaring investors into suddenly wanting to withdraw money leading to exposure and explosion.
My unscientific observation from watching American Greed is that when the stock market crashes that's when Ponzi schemes tend to implode. Usually droves of investors want their money back all at once. Also people start to really question how one operation is soundly beating the market during tough times.
A "bubble" is only a bubble if its dynamics are unsustainable. The proliferation of web-sites in the late 1990s felt like a bubble. So many new ones were popping up, that dispassionate judgment would have pointed to an unsustainable event. At that rate, in some number of years, every man, woman and child on earth would have become a web-developer. I don't know if peasants in Kenya or Cameroon are all HTML programmers now, but most assuredly, the proliferation of web sites never did abate, even if the pace of their creation slackened. There was no bubble.
I'd submit that the very nature of a true bubble is its inscrutability. If a substantial portion of people regard something as being a bubble, then necessarily it isn't one. This doesn't mean that stocks or real-estate or whatever can't decline. Assuredly they can. It's this fanatical "bubble, bubble, toil and trouble" shrillness that I find to be so vapid.
Does anybody here remember 1982? I was in elementary school back then, but I do remember watching "Wall Street Week, with Louis Rukeyser". It was the beginning of what became the greatest bull market in history, but at the time, didn't it feel like a bubble?
That bubble came because people were investing in websites, simply because they were websites. It was shiny and new and no one thought to look at how the websites were supposed to bring in money. Things like ad traffic, SEO, SEM, etc were in their infancy. I can write a website for the neighborhood stray cat and post pictures but if people won't visit it and buy the pictures or otherwise sell ad space, there is no market.
Amazon fell from $107 to $7, but was realistically at that time a website that sold books, and little more.
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