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Old 03-24-2017, 07:57 AM
 
106,579 posts, read 108,713,667 times
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michael kitces looked at generating a retirement income today and the best way to do it.

it is easiest for me to just post michaels summary but the fuill article is linked below :

The research on the optimal strategy to generate retirement income from a portfolio has been evolving for decades.

In the 1950s and 1960s, with the initial rise of a portfolio-based retirement, the leading strategy was simply to buy bonds and spend the interest (by literally “clipping the coupons” from the bearer bonds of the time). Until the inflation of the 1970s ravaged the purchasing power of bond interest.

The harsh consequences of inflation on bond portfolios led to a dramatic shift by the 1980s, as retirees increasingly purchased high-quality dividend-paying stocks instead, counting on the ability of businesses to raise prices and keep pace with inflation… which also helps their dividends to rise and keep pace with inflation as well.

The dividend strategy was popular until eventually retirees realized that owning stocks and focusing on the dividends, while ignoring the capital gains, just leads to large retirement account balances that could have been spent along the way. As a result, by the 1990s, retirement portfolio strategies shifted again, to consider a more holistic “total return” approach that incorporates interest, dividends, and capital gains as well.

Unfortunately, though, capital gains may be one of the largest drivers of total return in the long run, but it’s also one of the least stable, forcing the retiree to periodically rely on the portfolio principal as well. Of course, in the end, retirement principal that is unspent is arguably a wasted spending opportunity – where the “optimal” retirement portfolio is for the last check to the undertaker to bounce. On the other hand, given the uncertainty of a retiree’s time horizon – not knowing when you’re going to die – means in practice, the principal can and should be used more dynamically, spending from it in some years but leaving it untouched in others.

Which means ultimately, the modern retirement portfolio will really rely on four pillars for retirement income – interest, dividends, capital gains, and principal. Or stated more accurately, the four pillars of retirement cash flows – since the treatment of the pillars as “income” for tax purposes can vary depending on both the pillar itself (interest is taxable and principal liquidations are not), and the varying types of retirement accounts (from pre-tax IRAs to tax-free Roth accounts).

Nonetheless, the fundamental point is simply to recognize that a retirement portfolio has multiple ways to generate the desired cash flows for retirement. And in fact, in a low yield environment, it can be especially important to diversify across all four pillars – or retirees take on additional risks in stretching for yield, from interest rate and default risk (from longer-term or lower-quality bonds), to the concentration risks of buying just a subset of the highest dividend-paying sectors (which, as the financial crisis showed, can expose the portfolio to severe risk along the way!).

https://www.kitces.com/blog/four-pil...ins-principal/
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Old 03-24-2017, 08:14 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post

Unfortunately, though, capital gains may be one of the largest drivers of total return in the long run, but it’s also one of the least stable, forcing the retiree to periodically rely on the portfolio principal as well. Of course, in the end, retirement principal that is unspent is arguably a wasted spending opportunity – where the “optimal” retirement portfolio is for the last check to the undertaker to bounce. On the other hand, given the uncertainty of a retiree’s time horizon – not knowing when you’re going to die – means in practice, the principal can and should be used more dynamically, spending from it in some years but leaving it untouched in others.

https://www.kitces.com/blog/four-pil...ins-principal/
Those of us without heirs probably think about this "wasted opportunity" more than most. By the time I realize that I can safely start spending down the principal it will be too late to enjoy it.
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Old 03-24-2017, 08:24 AM
 
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anything better than worst case scenario's usually leaves to much money left on the table .
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Old 03-24-2017, 12:21 PM
 
Location: Was Midvalley Oregon; Now Eastside Seattle area
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We practice this. (Kitces)
4 income stream buckets. Assets within the buckets schlosh between the buckets. Derisked with 75% decoupled from direct affects of the market; ~25% entirely Discretionary. Works for us. May not work for you. Yuri
IMO, Bogleheading works fine in the accumulation phase but has some significant problems in the decumulation phase. Other methods could work...
YMMV

Last edited by leastprime; 03-24-2017 at 12:29 PM..
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Old 03-24-2017, 02:05 PM
 
Location: Haiku
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I like the total return approach. It is simple to do and makes sense.
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Old 03-24-2017, 02:09 PM
 
106,579 posts, read 108,713,667 times
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same , it is the most sensible to me . i don't really care how the sausage is made . if i had my choice tax wise i prefer it from mostly capital gains . i can't see paying tax on the full amount of the dividends i get , when i get it from capital gains i only pay tax on the gain portion not the full draw .
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Old 03-24-2017, 08:47 PM
 
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I'm still young and don't expect to have any heirs, but that doesn't mean I'm going to burn through my assets before I pass on. There are many charitable organizations I would like to pass on the money to. At the very minimum, a non-controversial charity like a no-kill animal shelter is always a good one to include in your will if you have no heirs.
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