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Old 02-07-2018, 01:00 PM
 
3,271 posts, read 2,188,771 times
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https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-in-the-market

Looks like there might be a run on bond funds.
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Old 02-07-2018, 04:34 PM
 
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It's a lazy poster who can't be bothered to, a least, extract a paragraph to support a link in a post as well as to type out a bit of original text ( commentary ) to go along with the cite.

Too many posts are composed of a "forest" of links and precious little actual original typing. They become, not so much, something to read, but a research project.
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Old 02-07-2018, 04:45 PM
 
106,654 posts, read 108,810,853 times
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hey , if it is something negative it has to be posted asap with jobster . his reputation will be at stake if he can't dredge up every "WHY NOT " he can find .
there is never anyting positive going on worth posting , you know that
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Old 02-07-2018, 07:36 PM
 
3,271 posts, read 2,188,771 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IDtheftV View Post
It's a lazy poster who can't be bothered to, a least, extract a paragraph to support a link in a post as well as to type out a bit of original text ( commentary ) to go along with the cite.

Too many posts are composed of a "forest" of links and precious little actual original typing. They become, not so much, something to read, but a research project.
As concise as it gets regarding bond ETFs:

"But the big, potentially market-destabilizing problem hidden in bond funds has to do with liquidity. ETFs, like stocks, can be bought and sold in milliseconds. But bank loans cannot. Loans trade in over-the-counter markets with much less volume and settlement times that can stretch out a month. The worry is that investors will stampede out of loan ETFs, which account for about $10 billion of the $156 billion in loan fund investments, faster than the ETF managers can sell the underlying loans in their portfolio. This would cause a gap in the value of the ETF and the value of the loans in it, or worse, the possibility the funds may not be able to immediately come up with money for investors looking to cash out. Fear of not being able to get your money back is what causes bank runs and financial mayhem in general."
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Old 02-07-2018, 10:06 PM
 
Location: Texas
5,872 posts, read 8,093,497 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jobster View Post
As concise as it gets regarding bond ETFs:

"But the big, potentially market-destabilizing problem hidden in bond funds has to do with liquidity. ETFs, like stocks, can be bought and sold in milliseconds. But bank loans cannot. Loans trade in over-the-counter markets with much less volume and settlement times that can stretch out a month. The worry is that investors will stampede out of loan ETFs, which account for about $10 billion of the $156 billion in loan fund investments, faster than the ETF managers can sell the underlying loans in their portfolio. This would cause a gap in the value of the ETF and the value of the loans in it, or worse, the possibility the funds may not be able to immediately come up with money for investors looking to cash out. Fear of not being able to get your money back is what causes bank runs and financial mayhem in general."
Come on man. They are not talking about Bond funds. They are talking about Senior Note Loan ETF's, essentially Bank Notes that are backed by CDS's. It's in your quote....LOAN ETFs...

Now, are they a problem, yes. And many have been sounding the alarm. But c'mon man, let's get it right. If you're not sure what the product is, just do a plain copy/paste. Or ask.
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Old 02-08-2018, 02:23 AM
 
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you know the drill . if it is a negative and why he should not act it goes up . it does not have to apply , it just has to document something negative so it justifies not making money in equities while others have made a lot .
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Old 02-08-2018, 04:40 AM
 
8,005 posts, read 7,219,988 times
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Does this mean it's time to sell my Chinese Bonds and short loan ETFs? I'm having a hard time keeping up with all the changing advice. You would think that there would be one good sky-is-falling investment that I could buy and hold till doomsday.
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Old 02-08-2018, 04:49 AM
 
106,654 posts, read 108,810,853 times
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even gold has been falling like a rock , his other choice .
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Old 02-08-2018, 05:58 AM
 
3,271 posts, read 2,188,771 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txgolfer130 View Post
Come on man. They are not talking about Bond funds. They are talking about Senior Note Loan ETF's, essentially Bank Notes that are backed by CDS's. It's in your quote....LOAN ETFs...

Now, are they a problem, yes. And many have been sounding the alarm. But c'mon man, let's get it right. If you're not sure what the product is, just do a plain copy/paste. Or ask.
That's a direct quote from the article. Don't shoot the messenger. Send your complaints to the author.

Last edited by Jobster; 02-08-2018 at 06:14 AM..
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Old 02-08-2018, 06:13 AM
 
3,271 posts, read 2,188,771 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
you know the drill . if it is a negative and why he should not act it goes up . it does not have to apply , it just has to document something negative so it justifies not making money in equities while others have made a lot .
I already explained to you that this is not why. I think we might be dealing with the beginning of a systematic collapse.

Confidence in the dollar may not ever be restored. US 10 year is going up like crazy, but yuan is clearly appreciating and flows are heading into the newly opened Chinese market. The Chinese are paying higher yields and it is a bull market.

There isn't a bull market in the US anymore because yields are rising, but nobody is buying anything, which is forcing the rate to rise, which is going to put tremendous pressure on the US economy. This is negative for equities as their earnings won't meet expectation for growth, and certainly not justify the P/E ratios.

In fact, that's probably why Citi said that equities would reduce by 50% in 2019 because that would put the P/E ratios around their historical average.

I'm not sure why people gang up on me. It seems as if everyone is pissed and constantly tries to undermine me, yet I've been fairly accurate so far with what I've said. Apparently, everybody missed the fact that the markets were being artificially inflated, so there wasn't any true price discovery. In the absence of future liquidity injections, we will soon find out what the true value of the market is.

It's not as if I'm rooting for the market to fail. The implications of that are disastrous for everyone in the US. Although, it's also the fault of US citizens because they allowed their government to steal from them, but that's another story.

Again though, it has nothing to do with me losing money or not getting enough money. I mean, it does to a certain extent because even if my investment strategy is successful, I have a big family, so if there is a serious economic downturn, where do you think the money will go to?

I don't think people are taking this seriously enough. I'm not sure how nobody is worried. I think you guys are a bit too complacent right now.

As far as gold is concerned, can I at least have until the end of the year? I actually expect it to go down before it goes up.

I mean, I could easily boast about how I called the top of the market, literally 2 days before the correction and managed to liquidate all my assets, despite being told that I don't know what I'm doing, but what good does that do?

Anyway, I'll just keep doing what I'm doing, and we'll see what happens at the end of the year.

Right now, it feels like people are mad at me as if it's like I'm taking their money.
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